Wikiversity:Colloquium/archives/February 2017

Lua module/template request

Hi! This looks like it could be the right place to ask about getting a Lua module (and template) added to Wikiversity, and if it's not I bet folks here can point me in that direction.

I'm helping out with the pages about Evidence based assessment, and we have a reference list that will also serve as a resource for students working on Wikipedia articles about individual assessment measures (e.g., health questionnaires), including some of the first sources those students will need to cite. Since this reference list almost certain to become a de facto referencing cheat sheet, we'd like to take advantage of that and display the code for citation along with the rendered result. We could use {{Markup}}, but it's bulky and puts as much (or more) emphasis on the code than the rendered result.

We'd like to use Wikipedia's {{Demo}} template because the style parameter provides some control over the <pre>...</pre> block, and perhaps use Demo Lua module to create a new template that would hide/collapse the code block for users who don't need it. Is it possible to get this template and Lua module added to Wikiversity?

Thanks! ShelleyAdams (discuss • contribs) 21:03, 1 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Templates and modules are imported, but you're going to need to test them carefully to see if anything is missing. Also, please review the /doc pages for these templates and clean them up for Wikiversity use. Thanks! -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 21:30, 1 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@ShelleyAdams: It's completely fine to import something from en.wp (especially if you use the Special:Import tool but even copy/pasting is technically fine). Just note that w:en:Template:Demo relies on all of the following modules and templates, which will also have to be imported:

Template:((
Template:))
Template:=
Template:Asbox
Template:Demo
Template:Demo/doc
Template:Documentation
Template:Documentation subpage
Template:Done
Template:Escape
Template:Fail
Template:Lua
Template:Para
Template:Red
Template:T
Template:Tag
Template:Tl
Module:Arguments
Module:Asbox
Module:Buffer
Module:Category handler
Module:Category handler/blacklist
Module:Category handler/config
Module:Category handler/data
Module:Category handler/shared
Module:Demo
Module:Documentation
Module:Documentation/config
Module:Escape
Module:List
Module:Lua banner
Module:Message box
Module:Message box/configuration
Module:Namespace detect/config
Module:Namespace detect/data
Module:Navbar
Module:No globals
Module:RoundN
Module:TableTools
Module:Yesno

Certainly not impossible, just more complicated than at first blush. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:28, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the help @Dave Braunschweig! Also, FYI @Koavf: looks like there are permission restrictions on Special:Import. —ShelleyAdams (discuss • contribs) 20:58, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@ShelleyAdams: Yes, sorry--you have to be an importer to use it. I can import or you can copy and paste them and provide attribution. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:59, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you decide to C&P, please provide a hyperlink or in your edit summary put resource title and source! --Marshallsumter (discuss • contribs) 22:01, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Dave Braunschweig: Cleaned up the Template:Demo/doc, but when I checked on {{Escape}} it's got errors because Module:Escape/testcases is missing. —ShelleyAdams (discuss • contribs) 23:21, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@ShelleyAdams: Module:Escape/testcases is available at Wikipedia:Module:Escape/testcases. But it may have bugs in it. I am unable to open it there. Perhaps I didn't wait long enough. Anyway, thanks for your efforts! You might want to take a look at Wikiversity:Curators. The additional rights may be of interest to you. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 02:27, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Languages resources and Wikilang

Good day all, as you may have seen, I have created the Wikilang learning resource recently. It stemmed from a proposal for a new project that has been declined, but I feel the content fits with Wikiversity's mission. Wikilang's role is to teach, record and document languages, including dead languages. The Wikilang project already has documentation and lessons on some languages. I propose to revamp the existing School:Language and Literature and School:Linguistics that need some love to be better organized and to merge them with the Wikilang project. Under it, I would create a portal for the Literature section and keep the existing departements/portals for the individual languages and I would re-work the existing language portals currently under Wikilang to better fit the department model of Wikiversity and be better integrated, it would also include the Portal:Foreign Language Learning that is already well organized. Basically, I propose to merge School:Language and Literature and School:Linguistics that are not very well organized to become School:Wikilang with three main departments : Languages, Linguistics and Literature. What do you think about that? Here is how it would look like: School:Wikilang. Thanks, Amqui (discuss • contribs) 17:01, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome Amqui! Thanks for taking on this project! First, some background perspective. Schools, Topics (Divisions and Departments), and Portals were all part of the original vision for Wikiversity, and were popular among some of the early contributors. However, they were always intended only as a place for contributors to work with each other to organize content. They were not intended to be a place to develop that content. Default searches do not include school, topic, or portal content.

Fast-forward six to eight years and everyone who was involved in developing the School and Topic models had moved on, Portals were under-developed, and no one was maintaining any of these. Then Wikimedia implemented Flow, and used the Topic: namespace to do so, breaking Wikiversity for a day or two until they turned the feature off here. About a year ago we started cleaning up the School and Topic namespace, reducing the number of schools by maybe 70%, eliminating topics (departments), and moving any semi-useful organizational content to Portals. Actual content was moved to the main resource space. Interestingly, during that review, it became apparent that most users who contributed to the School or Topic (department) pages never actually contributed any content. They typically created empty placeholders. Most users contributing content were busy working on content, and didn't invest time in the school or department approach. Wikiversity development is currently content focused, and a review of Wikiversity:Statistics shows that effort is consistent with user interest. Most schools and portals are well-down on the statistics list, or not listed at all.

I agree that the schools of Language and Literature and Linguistics could be combined and reworked. Wikilang is a fine name for a portal or learning project, but I wouldn't recommend it as the name of a school covering language or linguistics. A search for either language or linguistics won't find Wikilang. Perhaps Language Studies could be used for the school name, and this school could prominently highlight the Wikilang portal and make the connection that way. I like the new page design you have. I think relabeling Divisions and Departments to Learning Resources, Language Resources, Wikilang Resources, Language Portals, Wikilang Portals, or similar would be more consistent with your vision. There's no need to maintain a school or department perspective, as they are not maintained and generally do not draw user interest.

The only other recommendation I have so far would be to consolidate and simplify wherever possible. Portals with high user interest are fine. Portals that aren't well-maintained and don't draw user interest can be combined or eliminated. Move useful content into the main resource namespace and go on. If there's a list of statistics that would be helpful in deciding how to organize, let me know. See Wikiversity:School Review for an example of what I used as a basis for part of last year's efforts. Perhaps a Wikiversity:Portal Review page would be helpful now. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 20:24, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, thank you for the feedback. I had started building the framwork with "Departments" and "Divisions" by looking at other schools, but what you say make plently of sense. I have already consolidated the "main" pages for every languages present on Wikiversity (I think so) : Portal:Wikilang/List of languages. Most are portals and some are just a page in the main page (or both) while some are just the first pages of a lesson since they do not have a main page whatsoever, others are just a mess or an empty shell, and some are just some portals that I imported from Wikilang on Meta. I will go back to Wikilang being a portal, and having the School:Languages Studies combine the existing two schools mentioned, I will start organizing each language with a portal for their main page, and avoid the Topic namespace for the languages. Would you have a couple of good examples of schools' pages that are well organized? Thank you again, Amqui (discuss • contribs) 23:36, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a couple of schools that may be considered better organized:

School:Physics and Astronomy,
School:Chemistry,
School:Computer Science,
School:Biology,
School:Economics, and
School:Medicine. --Marshallsumter (discuss • contribs) 02:50, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have created the School:Languages Studies and updated the Portal:Wikilang. I am waiting for you feedback before transforming School:Linguistics and School:Language and Literature into redirect pages. Also, I have a question: what are the "streams"? Thanks, Amqui (discuss • contribs) 01:19, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Just FYI, the School:Linguistics is part of the Portal:Social Sciences, whereas School:Language and Literature is part of the Portal:Humanities! --Marshallsumter (discuss • contribs) 03:02, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Portal:Linguistics and the School:Classics are both a mess. Perhaps putting the School:Classics into the School:Language and Literature, and combining the School:Linguistics with the Portal:Linguistics is a better idea. What do you think? --Marshallsumter (discuss • contribs) 03:18, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There is also the Portal:East Asian languages and civilizations that perhaps should be included into either the School:Languages Studies or the School:Language and Literature. --Marshallsumter (discuss • contribs) 03:28, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The difference between Portal:Humanities and Portal:Social Sciences is very slim. The Portal:Humanities says that Humanities study human culture while the Portal:Social Sciences says that Social Sciences study human society. If I use the definition in the Wiktionary, Humanities are the study of language, literature, philosophy, and the arts, and Social Science is the science that studies the society and human behavior in it, including anthropology, communication studies, criminology, economics, geography, history, political science, psychology, social studies, and sociology. If the intent is to keep School:Linguistics under Social Sciences, then I propose to just keep it separated and just merge the School:Language and Literature with the School:Languages Studies that I just created; basically it would only be a renaming then. And I will remove the linguistics part under School:Languages Studies and just add a link to the School:Linguistics and vice-versa. There is no point in keeping both School:Languages Studies and School:Language and Literature, we just need to decide what is the best title.

My proposition is to merge School:Languages Studies and School:Language and Literature under the name School:Languages Studies that would be part of Humanities and to merge School:Linguistics and Portal:Linguistics under the name School:Linguistics that would be part of Social Sciences.

As for the Portal:East Asian languages and civilizations, it is already included in the School:Languages Studies on the Portal:Wikilang. Thanks, Amqui (discuss • contribs) 15:57, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

From your comment on the talk page of School:Languages Studies about renaming it into School:Language Studies, I changed my mind. I think the best solution would be to include Linguistics under the same school dans name it School:Language Studies as you proposed. I don't see any problem with this school being part of both Humanities and Social Sciences at the same time. In real life, there are university department that fall under more than one faculty. It would be too complicated to separate what is "linguistics" and what is "languages" if the schools are separated as they are now. So my proposition is now to have the School:Language Studies that where all the three current schools (School:Languages Studies, School:Language and Literature and School:Linguistics) would be merged. Under it, the Portal:Wikilang will be kept for the "languages" part, the Portal:Linguistics will be kept and a Portal:Literature will need to be created. I think it is the best solution, especially with the limited manpower, I think we should avoid division as much as we can. What do you think?

Also, while the School:Linguistics was under Portal:Social Sciences, the Portal:Linguistics was categorized as a portal of Humanities. Amqui (discuss • contribs) 16:32, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding streams, see Stream. It's not a particularly common usage of the term in my experience. Recommended sequence might be more clear. I support your approach to Humanities and Social Social Sciences. I came to similar conclusions when identifying the major subject Portals last year. We have many examples of things which fall under multiple major "containers" (schools, portals, categories). If including Linguistics makes sense to you and you're interested in putting in the effort, be bold! -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 17:31, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I like School:Language Studies into which all the four current schools (School:Languages Studies, School:Language and Literature, School:Classics and School:Linguistics) would be merged. --Marshallsumter (discuss • contribs) 18:15, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Portals and other in the search

I do not know what is the background history about not having the portal, school and topic namespaces in the search, but from my newbie point of view I think they should be. For example, the Breton language was a recent featured resources and it is recognized as a quality learning resources, but when I search "Breton language", I find absolutely nothing, the resources being Portal:Breton. I see the main namespace as being as space for the educational content itself like the lessons and the portals/topics as being a "hub" page to organize all those resources and lessons about a subject/topic and present them to the readers in an well organized fashion. The portal themselves are not "learning resources", so they shouldn't be in the main namespace, but they are very useful to the readers, not only to the contributors as a working space, but they a way to present all the information available to the readers in a structured way. What do you think and what is the background story? Amqui (discuss • contribs) 17:29, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Everything about Wikipedia:MediaWiki software and the wiki environment must be viewed from a Wikipedia perspective. It is designed to support users creating and reading (encyclopedia) content. The administrative aspects are tangents not directly related to the end-user focus of the software. One implication of that is that the search feature focuses on content rather than administration. Breton language content is currently at Breton. It should probably be renamed Breton language or Breton Language, since there is almost no Breton location content and almost all language and literature instead. I would ask whether Breton needs a portal. It averages less than one view per day. I would redirect Portal:Breton to Breton, incorporate any useful content into the Breton project itself, and move on. Content and portals attracting less than one view per day don't merit too much effort from my perspective. I'd much rather see us spend time on the content that generates tens or hundreds of views per day. I think WikiLang has the potential to do that. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 17:44, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, my understanding was that the portal pages would be the starting point to start learning about each languages, but it should be a page in the main namespace that do that, with a link to the portal that will serve as a directory for all learning resources about that language. I will start implementing that approach then. Thanks, Amqui (discuss • contribs) 18:58, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wikiversity:Portal Review is now available with statistics on portal content and usage. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 22:26, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback

I would like some feedback on the lesson I just created: Mi'kmaq language, since it's my first one here on English Wikiversity. Thanks, Amqui (discuss • contribs) 23:11, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I enjoyed reading through the lesson! My attempts at pronunciation fell short though. I usually have trouble with pronunciation guides that use phonemic characters. At least for me, an English word that's close helps, though I know some sounds require inflections an English speaker might not make. Spanish has several! Thanks for preparing the lesson! And, I have heard of the Micmac! If I may ask, do the Micmac have a word or phrase comparable to "dominant group"? --Marshallsumter (discuss • contribs) 16:45, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I do not know, but I may ask around to my Micmac friends. I am not Micmac myself. Amqui (discuss • contribs) 17:42, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Enable Labeled Section Transclusion

The Labeled Section Transclusion extension enables us to transclude sections rather than whole articles. I'd personally like this extension enabled so that I can transclude definitions from the formal glossary of philosophy to my first-order theory of causality. I'm sure many other users will find uses for this functionality. Should we request it? --Felipe (discuss • contribs) 13:26, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

See Special:Version. mw:Extension:Labeled Section Transclusion is already installed. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 14:13, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Aw, my bad! Thanks... --Felipe (discuss • contribs) 10:44, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

De-Recognition of Wikimedia Hong Kong

This is an update from the Wikimedia Affiliations Committee. Translations are available.

Recognition as a Wikimedia movement affiliate — a chapter, thematic organization, or user group — is a privilege that allows an independent group to officially use the Wikimedia trademarks to further the Wikimedia mission.

The principal Wikimedia movement affiliate in the Hong Kong region is Wikimedia Hong Kong, a Wikimedia chapter recognized in 2008. As a result of Wikimedia Hong Kong’s long-standing non-compliance with reporting requirements, the Wikimedia Foundation and the Affiliations Committee have determined that Wikimedia Hong Kong’s status as a Wikimedia chapter will not be renewed after February 1, 2017.

If you have questions about what this means for the community members in your region or language areas, we have put together a basic FAQ. We also invite you to visit the main Wikimedia movement affiliates page for more information on currently active movement affiliates and more information on the Wikimedia movement affiliates system.

Posted by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of the Affiliations Committee, 16:26, 13 February 2017 (UTC) • Please help translate to your language • Get help

Proposal to update the logo

Hi, there's a proposal to do an update of the Wikiversity logo at betawikiversity:Wikiversity:Babel#Update Wikiversity logo, check it out! --Felipe (discuss • contribs) 21:12, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Review of initial updates on Wikimedia movement strategy process

Note: Apologies for cross-posting and sending in English. Message is available for translation on Meta-Wiki.

The Wikimedia movement is beginning a movement-wide strategy discussion, a process which will run throughout 2017. For 15 years, Wikimedians have worked together to build the largest free knowledge resource in human history. During this time, we've grown from a small group of editors to a diverse network of editors, developers, affiliates, readers, donors, and partners. Today, we are more than a group of websites. We are a movement rooted in values and a powerful vision: all knowledge for all people. As a movement, we have an opportunity to decide where we go from here.

This movement strategy discussion will focus on the future of our movement: where we want to go together, and what we want to achieve. We hope to design an inclusive process that makes space for everyone: editors, community leaders, affiliates, developers, readers, donors, technology platforms, institutional partners, and people we have yet to reach. There will be multiple ways to participate including on-wiki, in private spaces, and in-person meetings. You are warmly invited to join and make your voice heard.

The immediate goal is to have a strategic direction by Wikimania 2017 to help frame a discussion on how we work together toward that strategic direction.

Regular updates are being sent to the Wikimedia-l mailing list, and posted on Meta-Wiki. Beginning with this message, monthly reviews of these updates will be sent to this page as well. Sign up to receive future announcements and monthly highlights of strategy updates on your user talk page.

Here is a review of the updates that have been sent so far:

Update 1 on Wikimedia movement strategy process (15 December 2016)
- Introduction to process and information about budget spending resolution to support it
Update 2 on Wikimedia movement strategy process (23 December 2016)
- Start of search for Lead Architect for movement strategy process
Update 3 on Wikimedia movement strategy process (8 January 2017)
- Plans for strategy sessions at upcoming Wikimedia Conference 2017
Update 4 on Wikimedia movement strategy process (11 January 2017)
- Introduction of williamsworks
Update 5 on Wikimedia movement strategy process (2 February 2017)
- The core movement strategy team, team tracks being developed, introduction of the Community Process Steering Committee, discussions at WikiIndaba conference 2017 and the Wikimedia movement affiliates executive directors gathering in Switzerland
Update 6 on Wikimedia movement strategy process (10 February 2017)
- Tracks A & B process prototypes and providing feedback, updates on development of all four Tracks

More information about the movement strategy is available on the Meta-Wiki 2017 Wikimedia movement strategy portal.

Posted by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation, 20:30, 15 February 2017 (UTC) • Please help translate to your language • Get help

Need advice from Wikiversians with computer skills

I write code in MATLAB and perhaps soon in PYTHON that creates wikitext for my exams in Quizbank. I would like to post that code on Wikiversity using the <pre>...</pre> tag. Unfortunately the code contains numerous usages of the <nowiki>...</pre></nowiki> tag, which interferes with the markup whenever I attempt to post the my Quizbank-rendering programs on Wikiversity. I see three ways to do resolve this problem:

Write a MATLAB/Python code that replaces all instances of > by < (the latter renders as > to the reader). The contributor would paste the text into a Wikiveristy resource in "edit" mode, and the user could copy the rendered code from the "resource" window, and past it into a textfile or MATLAB edit window.
Post the code directly into the "edit" page of a Wikiveristy page. It would be viewed from Wikiverity by clicking "edit".--Guy vandegrift (discuss • contribs) 15:57, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Find a host outside Wikiversity to host code text. The hosting service needs to be universally user-friendly to novices. The code would not be used by programmers, but by educational content people who might not be familiar with such services. --Guy vandegrift (discuss • contribs) 15:57, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'd recommend the first option. The code then correctly displays on Wikiversity and can be copied and used directly. Note that this doesn't require a program. The source editor includes find and replace, and you could replace <nowiki> with <nowiki> quite easily. Requiring the user to edit in order to copy seems ripe for user error.

Putting the code somewhere else seems unnecessary. But there are one or two options. It is common to use Github for open source code sharing. That's a reasonable alternative. I personally use Bitbucket rather than Github, because Bitbucket allows private repositories for up to five users. This is more effective for student assignments, which I want to be private with only the student and instructor having access. Github is free for public use, but only has paid private options.

One other point on code highlighting. <pre> is generic. There is specific MATLAB And Python syntax highlighting available. See Computer Programming/Introduction/MATLAB and Computer Programming/Introduction/Python3 for examples.

Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 16:54, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I realized the first option was best when it occurred to me to just use the replace feature in Wikiversity's edit mode to replace <nowiki> by <nowiki> whenever it's required (most subroutines won't even need this)--Guy vandegrift (discuss • contribs) 20:42, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Does anybody know anything about the Python library "Wikipedia"?

I found a student with knowledge of Python that I hope to fund this summer to upgrade Quizbank. It might be convenient to use the Wikipedia python library. Does anybody know about it: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/wikipedia/ ???20:52, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

@Guy vandegrift: You may have more luck posting on Wikipedia. I know that User:Dan Koehl is active at Wikispecies and has directed me to a Python solution before, so he may have some knowledge. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:11, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dear @Guy vandegrift and Koavf:, you may take a look here. (And I may as well, sounds interesting) Best regards, Dan Koehl (discuss • contribs) 02:15, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I must say though, that the documentation and instructions are very confusing; as to for what purpose is this, when and where to use it etc, Theres lins to download Wikipedia I get the feeling this is a tool to search through Wikipedia when downloaded on your own computer? Dan Koehl (discuss • contribs) 02:24, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Use Pywikibot. Very well supported, and reasonably well documented. Note that our Pywikibot documentation is quite old. mw:Manual:Pywikibot is current. If anyone needs to learn Python first, see Computer Programming and Python Programming. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 02:50, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Poor transclusion at Wikiversity:Guided tour/Portal

I see that {{Portal:Humanities}} could not be well transcluded at Wikiversity:Guided tour/Portal. Not just there, but I previewed the transclusion here via editing page/tab and wonder whether it's broken or something. --George Ho (discuss • contribs) 02:12, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@George Ho: I'm working on it. Another good catch. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:31, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@George Ho: Actually, I don't think this will work due to the tab structure of this portal. We may have to choose a different solution... —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:41, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]