User talk:Guy vandegrift

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Hi Guy vandegrift!

Your resource Quizbank appears to be well-developed and ready for learners! Would you like to have it announced on our Main Page News? --Marshallsumter (discusscontribs) 14:25, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Yes!--Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 22:16, 7 August 2018 (UTC)


Should All1/ be a subpage of something? Does it need the trailing slash? These seem very unusual for a main page title. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 02:18, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Dave Braunschweig It was supposed to be /All1 to a subpage in Quizbank. FYI - I am making HUGE files just under the 2048 kB limit because I realized that my test banks are now so large that I need to know what questions the students will face before each exam in order to help the weaker ones with targeted lectures. And, I am going to experiment with short 2-4 question in-class "pop" quizzes that target those questions. For that reason I needed to publicly post several versions of "all" possible questions so I can post the "pop" quizzes on an overhead projector. If those large files are a problem for Wikiversity let me know. At some point I might switch the hypertext to either Latex or html/mathjax and post pdf files. First I need to establish that I can successfully teach using open-source testbanks. Then, later (in a few years) we can look for a way to host combinations of private-public banks.--Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 13:37, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Why is the Sky dark at Night?[edit]

Hi Guy vandegrift!

Your essay Why is the Sky dark at Night? appears well-developed and ready for users! Would you like to have it announced on our Main Page News? --Marshallsumter (discusscontribs) 21:58, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Sure, why not. Thanks.--Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 22:37, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Lint Errors[edit]

See Special:LintErrors/misc-tidy-replacement-issues -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 02:46, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

It looks like it might be a problem with the cot/cob (collapsable) templates (which contain span). None of these quizzes are essential so I can delete (or redirect) almost all of them. I hope my upgraded numerical quizzes under QB are free of this error (see for example QB/a07energy cart1.)--Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 12:26, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
@Dave Braunschweig: Is this where the Lint error is?
<div class="toccolours mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="width:100%">
<span style="font-family:Cursive; font-size: 10pt; background-color:#FFF">Information (click to expand)</span>
<div class="mw-collapsible-content">
*_Name_* QB/d_Bell.Venn
*_Permalink_* [[Special:Permalink/1878495]]
*_Attribution_* PublicDomain
*_See_* [[User:Guy vandegrift]]
It seems like it's related to the <quiz> tags. Just removing those removes the lint error. This may be a bug in the linter or a bug in the quiz code. The Miscellaneous Tidy replacement issues page is a new one. I'll have to look at the HTML generated by the tag and see what's behind it. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 00:31, 11 September 2018 (UTC)



@Dave Braunschweig:

I hid several lines of text since I think this question has been resolved (leaving the bigger issue unresolved).  The hidden text looks like this: 

<!-- <quiz> ...(lots of lines)... </quiz>-->

If you edit #subsection2conversation you will see that we need the extra blank line. Perhaps this is the source of the problem???--Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 02:12, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

That's not it. There are no lint errors on this page. If you want to experiment with it, go to Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets and turn on LintHint. Then edit one of the pages with the error and click on LintHint in the upper right corner. It will show you the errors. You can play with the code and see if you can get the error to go away. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 02:33, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
It's getting near my accident-prone bedtime, but I think I removed QB/d Bell.photon and QB/d_Bell.Venn from the list using the nowiki tag to undo what appears to be correct usages of the <quiz> extension. See my most recent edits on those pages. I will play with the gadget tomorrow.--Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 02:43, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
It looks like it's related to placement of Files / Images. See the correction I made on Astronomy college course/Chasing Pluto. Files first generates improper HTML. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 02:52, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
I am new to gadgets and will look at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets this weekend. Meanwhile, I will begin to deal with those quizzes with Lint errors that are not in QB space. All of these quizzes need to be replaced by redirects to subpages of QB. That will at least reduce the number of pages with these Lint errors.--Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 15:37, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

@Dave Braunschweig: I agree that a major cause of Lint errors is not putting image at the end of the question. I investigated this in a series of edits on User talk:Guy vandegrift/sandbox concluding with special:permalink/1919949. If these errors are a problem, I can blank the pages and put a page-protected note on the page instructing the reader to look just before the most recent edit. While this sounds drastic, it is actually routine for me to instruct students to study vandal-proof permalinks, consideration the temptation to "improve the curve" by confounding the efforts of fellow students with vandalism. See for example all the permalinks at Quizbank/College Physics Sem 1. My quizzes under QB are very carefully formatted so that I can download them without modification so that my Python code looks for "magic words" to create exams. I wouldn't mind re-configuring how this is done, and could write a batch program with redefined magic words. But that will have to wait till next summer.--Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 19:50, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

These errors are in the High Priority section, meaning that the generated user interface is not consistent from browser to browser. Blanking doesn't add value. That's no content rather than inconsistent content. I could write bot code to move the images to the end of the same paragraph if that is a reasonable solution. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 00:05, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Correct me if I am wrong, but my impression is that your phrase "doesn't add value" means that users who go to the permalink might not see an acceptable rendition of the wikiquiz. My browser (Chrome) sees nothing wrong. Before you create a bot, would you like me to verify that my students can see the quiz properly? If the Lint error does not impact any of my students, I can live with the situation until I reconfigure all the wikiquizzes next summer. It's your call. And thanks for even considering the creation of bots to solve the problem.--Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 01:01, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
I was thinking that blanking the resource doesn't add value. Nothing isn't an improvement over the current status. I'm not sure when I'll get to it, but it will be before next summer. Thanks! -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 23:25, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
@Dave Braunschweig: Keep me in the loop before you start to work on the Lint errors. I am seriously considering switching my language from wikitext to Latex. That would permit me to post pdf files for instructors to use. The way I write the tests and quizzes is to first write a text document using "magic" words and then use Python to (1) calculate the random number inputs and answers, and then (2) to write the hypertext. Once the Python code is working properly, creating two hypertext documents (wikitext and latex) from a given quiz or exam is not any more time-consuming that creating one document. I need at least one more summer of this coding before I begin to focus almost entirely on the content. The idea of including Latex as an optional hypertext came to me only a few weeks ago, inspired in part by Lint errors and other browser issues, and in part by the fact that one company found a set of quizzes on Wikiversity and is offering them as part of their CMS package . But if I do attempt to add a Latex (or similar) version, I can easily modify the code to fix the Lint errors as I tinker with the testbank. We should try to get together sometime before Summer, or even perhaps before or during Christmas break. I am often in the Chicago area.--Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 01:59, 14 September 2018 (UTC)


@Dave Braunschweig: I think it is safe to say that we shouldn't worry about Lint errors on the quizzes because I plan to replace those pages with something better. I just downloaded Latex and they have a very elegant way of doing multiple choice quizzes:

\question Which of these guys invented time
 \choice Stephen Hawking 
 \choice Albert Einstein
 \choice Isaac Newton
 \choice This makes no sense

I now use "magic" words and Python to create these tests, so mw:Extension:Quiz is pretty much irrelevant. I have over 1000 questions and some come with about 20 variations (random number inputs). The Python code looks for the magic words and produces wikitext that does not use the quiz extension. See QB/d zTemplateConceptual for a quiz on how these magic words work. The lint errors arise from a relatively minor use of Quiz Extension protocols in the system. These Quiz Extension protocols in the system need to be removed for reasons unrelated to the lint errors. A copy of the textfiles you see under QB is stored on my laptop, where Python does the conversion into wikitext that creates the files on a page like Quizbank/University Physics Semester 2/T1 which never even uses the quiz extension.

My plan is for teachers and students who use the quizzes will look at a page like File:QB-University Physics Semester 2-T1.pdf, but authors of a quiz will write in a protocol that looks like Talk:QB/ It will take a while to write, but one Python code on the laptop can batch convert each quiz in QB to the proper format.--Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 11:44, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

pub_format in WikJournal of Medicine[edit]

extended discussion

Hi Guy, want to ask you if you could have a look at my comments in the Discussion of a preprint in the WikiJournal of Medicine. I don't want to bother the other board members, because it basically a non-medical and more technical recommendation to the editorial board according to the publication format of WikiJournals in general. I inserted a new attribute pub_format in that preprint about Intestinal epithelium. That attribute might be considered in the template. Furthermore I suggested to add conclusions even to an Ecyclopedic Article e.g. by showing a way-forward for applications of the article at the end, e.g. recommending a Quiz as a self-assessment framework and as extension of the article towards a richer learning resource in the sense of Reader2Author.

If my comments are not worth to consider them further - no worries - even a negative response would be helpful to understand, which ideas are helpful for the Wiki Community support WikiJournals in general.

Thank you very much for time considering my comments. best wishes from Germany, Bert --Bert Niehaus (discusscontribs) 14:41, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your interest in WJM! I am now only a consultant (since I know nothing about biology and even less about medicine) so I can only consult: I am not an expert on the consequences of unnecessary attributes to template calls, but I would be surprised if it did any harm. Your decision to "be bold" and note it in the talk page was correct. Regarding you second suggestion, it involves something of more interest to me, namely the attachment of text to articles. My opinion is that adding something like a conclusion should be optional but not required for any article. I certainly don't fault the original authors for failing to do so, but I am equally certain that a high-quality conclusion to any article would add to its value. The real question is what is the editorial policy regarding edits to an article that has already been accepted. As far as I can tell, everything you have done so far is appropriate. but since the article has not been reviewed, you might wish to contact the contributing author(s) with these ideas. If you write a conclusion, or wish to suggest a new attribute, that could be part of the submission process. In short, you have stated your opinions on the talk page, and the editors will see them after the initial reviews have been submitted to that same talk page. And THANK YOU for your interest in all this. Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 15:23, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for the feedback and I do not want to push the author to add a conclusion. I am interested in health issues especially from the mathematical modelling angle and I would not add a section Conclusion to the article myself. I think the author is the driver in defining what he wants to provide as message to the community. I just want to state that Encyclopedic Articles have higher importance for Wikiversity as a Learning Resource in comparison other journals. I think the great benefit of having these peer-reviewed articles in Wikiversity is that we have higher level of quality assurance for learning resources which is really important for content adressing human health. All the best and thank you for your feedback. --Bert Niehaus (discusscontribs) 15:43, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I agree that the most natural role for the WikiJournals is to create quality and reliable versions of the Wikipedia articles. Keep in mind that the attributes and conclusions can be added at any date by any person. That is the beauty of the creative commons license. --Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 15:54, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
Since my experience in Wikipedia was, that some of my contributions are removed even from history of the page, that was strange. I tested a contribution in Statistical Reliability that was not correct and that can be easily detected as not correct by someone that has knowledge about statistics. So I look what happend, and it was classified as "complete nonsense" and removed from history. That was OK for me to avoid a roll-back fight of versions in other cases. That this happens even to good faith edits, was really worrying me, so I decided to be more careful. Do not want to violate community rules and I think removing a contribution even from the history is a rigid response. I think Wikiversity is more open for collaborative evolution of ideas in an Open Innovation Ecosytem - having at the same time a quality assurance approach with the WikiJournals. For me it took quite a long time to understand challenges and opportunities properly and I still learning. Your feedback and the support of Dave helps me very much in the beginning. --Bert Niehaus (discusscontribs) 16:17, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
Wikipedia is full of highly competent editors, but also has a large cadre of what might be called semi-competent editors. To be a WP editor you need to be tough and hard nosed, but also patient. That is why I switched to Wikiversity a few years ago. A long and frustrating discussion with one editor caused me to greatly curtail my WP edits. Several years later, I discovered that he/she was topic-banned from an entire class of articles. --Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 16:37, 11 September 2018 (UTC)|}

Much Delayed Response[edit]

You wrote an eloquent and detailed welcome and response, and I sort of disappeared into the unintentional wikibreak ether a few years ago, and for that I apologize. I much enjoyed my time many years ago here at WV, and hope that I can jump back on and contribute again. Once I'm up to speed a bit I'll go through and write a more detailed response, but I just wanted to touch base now that I've returned. Historybuff (discusscontribs) 06:53, 29 September 2018 (UTC)