Talk:Wikiversity Journal

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Discussions in Wikipedia[edit]

The citation of Wikiversity Journal articles in Wikipedia is under discussion at w:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine, w:Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard and w:Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not. These discussions may be applicable to the citation of any Wikiversity article in a Wikipedia article. James500 (discusscontribs) 20:04, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification. I've made replies at those discussions. Mikael Häggström (discusscontribs) 11:41, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Journals in development[edit]

I moved this header, along with text below, to here, because I think it needs any actual development before reinsertion:

Journals in development so far function on a Do it yourself basis, wherein the author adds the article to a Wikiversity page, arranges for completing the Wikiversity peer review process, and adds the article title to the corresponding journal.

Mikael Häggström (discusscontribs) 09:03, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

How did this journal set get DOIs?[edit]

Is there anyplace that I can read on-wiki how this journal set came to be able to assign DOIs to articles? Thanks. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:24, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

There wasn't before you came to ask, but in short I first applied for an ISSN as an "open access scholarly publication" at the National Library of Sweden, and once that was approved I could use that ISSN apply for assigning DOIs to articles at CrossRef. Mikael Häggström (discusscontribs) 20:28, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Well done[edit]

Hi all, great to see this project. I was thinking the same thing today and was pointed here by DocJames when I asked him for feedback. I am interested in helping in any way I can. I will read up on this project in the coming days and see if I can find something to do. All the best, Taketa (discusscontribs) 16:43, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm delighted to hear that you find interest in this project Face-smile.svg I left a message on your talk page. Mikael Häggström (discusscontribs) 20:46, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Generic process[edit]

Mikael has gotten the Wikiversity Journal of Medicine started, but there are general concerns. I've been reading the discussions of the Wiki J Med on Wikipedia. There is a collision between the apparent objectives of Wiki J Med and Wikipedia Reliable Source guidelines.

In some discussions I have read, there is a confusion between peer review and "reliable source." The essence of reliable source guidelines is independent publication. Peer review is merely a method used in academic publication to support the publisher goals. The essence of it, in peer-reviewed publications, is that the *publisher* controls the review process, not the author.

The prohibition of using a wiki as a reliable source comes from the fact that, on a wiki, there is normally no responsible publisher, in the sense required for reliable source guidelines.

The goals of Wiki J Med have been mixed. One was to provide material to be used in Wikipedia articles. Another was to have an open and transparent process for approval. As was apparently realized early on. "open and transparent" is not always feasible. However, any publisher could incorporate open and transparent process in its publication decisions.

Now, we can have Wikiversity Journals without this rigamarole. They would simply be places where content relating to the topic of the journal are published, instead of scattering it. They could also be lists of resources here, and approval process is possible, on-wiki.

However, to meet RS guidelines, there must be an independent *and responsible* publisher, not merely an open access place where content may be created and edited. The name Wikiversity in the title implies that Wikiversity is the responsible publisher. "Wiki" would not imply that, by the way. However, the publisher must be an independent person or organization, with a reputation to create, maintain, and defend. The publisher, then, would certify content. That content may exist on Wikiversity, but it would also be linked from the publisher web site, which cannot be Wikiversity. It could be very simple, just tables of contents, low traffic, cheap. Almost all the review process could take place openly, with an independent board -- or editor --, appointed by the publisher, handling confidential submissions, and, as well, assigning peer reviewers.

One of the conflicts that appeared, which did not escape notice on Wikipedia, was authors who were involved with peer review. Not independent. Apparently, the principal author is also the publisher, in the sense of owning the domain that is used, currently http/ , which currently redirects to Wikiversity Journal of Medicine, which is not going to fly. This domain is owned by Mikael Haggstrom, not by an organization.

Mikael *can* be the publisher; however, this then creates a blatant conflict of interest.

There are student-run journals. It is fairly common in the U.S. for law reviews, even highly reputable ones, to be student-run. However, to become a reputable journal, quality standards must be high. If articles are published on non-notable topics and without expert review, reputation may be damaged. This much is clear to me: to serve as reliable source, the publisher cannot be Wikiversity, nor can the publisher be controlled by a wiki. Being openly advised by a wiki is a different matter, that is clearly possible.

The problem of wiki articles being approved in one state, and then changing, has been raised on Wikipedia as well. The Journal, when it publishes using the wiki, links to permanent versions. The authoritative table of contents of the Journal is off-wiki, though it will be mirrored on-wiki. We already have traditions of respecting attributed authors on subpages (which is a reason why I moved all the published Journal articles to subpages of the Wiki J Med.) We can formalize this as policy in the case of Journal articles, where the community recognizes the journal's relationship with Wikiversity. We can also use Pending Changes for this, which will allow *anyone* to edit journal articles, which are only incorporated in the visible page for non-logged-in users when approved by a Reviewer, and we can cover this in policy.

If the considerations mentioned are respected, there is nothing other than inertia stopping the creation of journals, that might even create content for Wikipedia as needed; key will be an independent responsible publisher, as with any reliable source, and probably a sound and independent review process. Properly done, the quality of the sources created could be higher than for standard publishing. Having "wiki review" as part of the process may bring in wider expertise than sometimes is available with single-reviewer process. As well, as soon as an article exists on Wikiversity, even undergoing review, a sister wiki link can be placed on Wikipedia. That is *not* a claim of reliable source, it is merely a notice that content relating to the topic exists on Wikiversity. It's under External Links if on the article page, and, of course, it may be mentioned on Talk pages.

The discussions that are then created will not decide the content. They will inform it, by advising the publisher; key to this is that the publisher is responsible for those content decisions, as to what the Journal publishes.

Hybrid structure, long an interest of mine.... --Abd (discusscontribs) 14:14, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

If we necessarily need to define a publisher, why can't an editorial board with an editor-in-chief constitute that? I do have the ultimate responsibility for published articles, but I do so as an editor-in-chief. The articles are then hosted by Wikiversity, and the project does have approval by the Wiki Project Med Foundation. Reliability is then something that us built in time - even Wikipedia is struggling with that despite evidence of not having more errors than other academic sources (Wikipedia:Reliability of Wikipedia).
I agree the peer review process should now not be performed by someone in the editorial board. I've added myself at Wikiversity Journal of Medicine/Peer reviewers, but it's practically to set an example of how to add yourself on the list. I've emailed several independent individuals and asked for a peer review of the latest article submission. You can help out too by trying to find people who would be suitable for the task.
I also support either semi-protection or pending changes, once we have any disruptive edit to show upon application. Mikael Häggström (discusscontribs) 18:08, 27 May 2015 (UTC)