User talk:Timboliu

Welcome! Hello Timboliu, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. All users are expected to abide by our Privacy policy, Civility policy, and the Terms of Use while at Wikiversity. To get started, you may Take a guided tour and learn to edit. Visit a (kind of) random project. Browse Wikiversity, or visit a portal corresponding to your educational level: pre-school, primary, secondary, tertiary, non-formal education. Find out about research activities on Wikiversity. Explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Read an introduction for teachers and find out how to write an educational resource for Wikiversity. Give feedback about your initial observations Discuss Wikiversity issues or ask questions at the colloquium. Chat with other Wikiversitans on #wikiversity-en. Follow Wikiversity on twitter (http://twitter.com/Wikiversity) and identi.ca (http://identi.ca/group/wikiversity). You don't need to be an educator to edit. You only need to be bold to contribute and to experiment with the sandbox or your userpage. See you around Wikiversity! --Abd 12:02, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Help:Video

Hi - does the page above help? Sincerely, James -- Jtneill - Talk - c 03:35, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Project Structure

I was looking at your project for Corporate social responsibility. I would encourage you to consider having a primary project page or pages and then subpages underneath. In other words, rather than having a separate CSR: free laptop, you can use CSR/Free laptop or Corporate social responsibility/Free laptop. This puts all of the pages in the same learning project, and can ease both maintenance and navigation. Just something to consider. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 02:10, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi Dave, thanks for the tip, I will change this. Cheers, Tim, Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 07:29, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Beta-Wikiversity

Hi Tim, I just joined Beta and I would like you to welcome me their so I can understand it a little more. Not a lot of pages in English are their! --~~Golden_burg111 20:34, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi, Goldenburg111. Please share your questions, maybe I can help? Cheers, Tim, Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 21:05, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Well, why aren't their pages in English their? I already created "Love/En" and created a English and Feelings category. --~~Golden_burg111 21:15, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Because the English wikiversity is already out of beta. Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 23:00, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Project Structure Revisited

We are currently making a concerted effort to place all resource pages within an appropriate learning project, such that they would be consistent with the idea of a course or extended learning experience. This would be the combination of multiple lessons, activities, projects, etc.

Please share what overarching learning projects you are working on, and how you would advise structuring the pages that have been created so that they can be moved under one of these learning project(s).

Thanks!

Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 23:51, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi David, I'm active on the Dutch wikiversity, I'm new to the English wikiversity. The learning projects I'm working in is probably system development. I'm an expert in model driven development (systems build based on models). I think modelling is also a learning project. Is this the information you are looking for? Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 21:21, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that's the idea. I'm not sure what the Dutch model is, but what we're trying to do here is have root pages be only used for extended learning projects. Our intention is that root pages would be multiple lessons on a topic rather than individual pages or even definitions. See Lua or Astronomy or Introduction to Swedish for different approaches to this. Style isn't the issue, just substance. For example, Concepts isn't something that we would be able to create a course from, and even the term Concepts could be used by and have widely varying meanings to different projects. Since this is supporting material for some other project, we want to identify the project and move the content under that project.

It's not necessary for you to do the moving yourself. I have a bot I can use to move pages relatively automatically once I know where they are supposed to go. So, think about it and let me know what the best overall learning project or projects would be for the pages you're currently working on. Provide a link or links if you would, just so I know exactly where the pages should go.

Thanks! -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 22:10, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi David, can we add the concept-page to learning project modelling (https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Modelling)? In 2014 the RuralWeb community (see RuralWeb for more info) wants to start a learning circle to further develop this learning project. Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 22:52, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Done. Let me know if I missed anything. Thanks! -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 03:52, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi David, looks fine! Thanks for the help. Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 20:06, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

"accidentally" saw deletions on beta Wikiversity and have a request to you please

See my comment there. Since I see now comments of you in the colloquium here at en.WV, I'd like to ask you to make a note/timeline of the situation also on beta please, ideally on Bable, so it gets more publicity. If something has gone wrong let's try to fix that. (If there exists such a page already, point me there please), ----Erkan Yilmaz 16:37, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

also: I started this at Babel, ----Erkan Yilmaz 16:45, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi User:Erkan_Yilmaz. Thanks! I saw your comment on Babel this morning and added a reaction. I now also see this message. Maybe you can help me with starting the discussion? Regards, Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 07:07, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

• This is getting hot on Beta. At this point, Timboliu, I suggest sitting on your hands. Do nothing but watch. I have documented the history on Beta Babel, and that was vociferously and ridiculously challenged. I see pretty well what is happening, it's common Wikipedian mindset, including habits of taking everything personally and attacking people. We do things differently here, and some of us are Beta users -- and Erkan is also a sysop there -- and will act to support the development of Beta projects as true Wikiversity projects, not defective and weak reflections of encyclopedias. Your actions on Beta were unskillful, but, here, our goal would not be to blame you for being unskillful, it would be to help you learn skill. That's a great deal of what we are about, learning by doing.

• There is also at least one mature Dutch Wikipedian who is peripherally involved. I suspect sanity to prevail, for there to be some restraint shown, and the situation will become win-win. We know how to do that here, wouldn't this be a great foundation for a Dutch Wikiversity? So, Timboliu, at this point, sit back and watch the show. It's going to be interesting, one way or another. Stop arguing, even though you are at least partly right. You will have work to do, wait until you are invited or some specific comment is clearly needed. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 19:14, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Abd, thanks for your help. I will stop arguing and watch the show :-) Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 20:01, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Well, the discussion is already taking place at many places (reading up on things). I think I'll make some notes on beta while reading/answering. ----Erkan Yilmaz 20:48, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

I also contacted Wikimedia Nederland. On of their goals for 2014 is to improve the way we collaborate in the (Dutch) community. I asked if Wikimedia Nederland can facilitate a discussion. In my opinion we should also involve people from grown-up communities to learn from their best practices. Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 05:26, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes, reaching out is good. We can also start somethings ourself, so people can join anytime.

First I'd propose "assessment" of the Dutch WV policies/rules (see also Wikiversity_talk:Policies/Nl on beta). Because if these are not OK, things like the current situation will repeat (also for other new WV learners). If those policies/rules need addition: then better we change/adapt them now. It doesn't matter if those rules were recently created, it's a starting point.

The second thing is (as I said on your beta WV talk page): what kind of minimal solution is OK for you? since you know your learning resources the best (and also have copies), we could start by restoring them step by step? This will show involved persons (who can NOT see the deleted content) what you were working on at beta.WV. E.g. if pages were deleted without justifying cause, ... We can talk about those restored pages like: getting the view of different persons (e.g. what improvement potential can be seen; what can we change on the undeleted learning resource right now, so people understand their goal; should it be re-deleted, ...)

Since you asked where to do the discussion: this can be done anywhere, so e.g. we could start something like this (Learning from conflict and incivility <- the topic in this link is "irrelevant", it's just an example. I would like all concentrated on 1 place (e.g. on beta.WV) with a timeline, so others can see how we came to this situation). Another way is also to create something like a blog and write there thoughts up as they appear. ----Erkan Yilmaz 06:14, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

see also [1], ----Erkan Yilmaz 09:17, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

feedback (after reading some learning resources)

• I missed categories (see e.g. [2])
  • categories help that interested people find that learning resource better
• I could imagine to make "contacting infos" like here separate (or on the talk page)?
  • At least a follow up on their status would be good. If they didn't reply in a timely manner, they probably have no interest:
    • Modelling/VDML
    • WordPress, ----Erkan Yilmaz 06:59, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

explanation why I stumbled on the contacting info: external links always look "suspicious" (though there are also valid reasons)

so, using those less or all concentrated on 1 page (e.g. a page called status report XYZ and there listed: for learning project A I contacted B because ..., and another column on the follow-up/responses), ----Erkan Yilmaz 07:07, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi Erkan Yilmaz, thank you for your tips. I will keep them in mind when (re)creating new content. What project do you think has the most potential to (re)create again? WordPress? Maybe we can import the deleted content under my username? Is that possible, so I can change the content? Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 13:52, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Well, the mainpages of WordPress here and on beta (deleted) look currently too different. The page here is looking much better. Which learning projects you want to be restored depends mostly on chances that it helps the NL.WV longterm.

Perhaps even a page where a deletion discussion took place (Wikiversity:Te verwijderen pagina's) is better, because there we've already points listed what was seen as improvable. ----Erkan Yilmaz 15:32, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

btw: here's also some feedback from someone who was not yet involved in the beta happenings: Talk:Triggre,
P.S. thx: User:Dave_Braunschweig, ----Erkan Yilmaz 16:12, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

SuccessFactors

"Maybe I should delete this page?": it's your choice, as I said above: you can also make a status report in a subpage of yours, e.g. User:Timboliu/status and add there all the contact requests, progress, ... Then the learning resource itself stays free out of suspicion. ----Erkan Yilmaz 09:35, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Erkan Yilmaz, I moved the content to the talk page. So other people can see that someone tried to ask for some screenshots. Is that okay? Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 12:58, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Sure, and:

for me everything as learning resource is OK. If I don't like something, I can use the edit-button.

But as you saw: there are different people, expectations on learning resources. Regarding that actions should be done, ----Erkan Yilmaz 13:07, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Please stop creating pages without support

Above, there is concern about SuccessFactors. Looking at that, I see a link to HCM. I have an idea of what it is you want to do, but you are doing it by creating a mess, strewn out across mainspace. Please stop creating pages in mainspace until you have some support.

Rather, start a page in your user space for the overall topic you want to work on. It might be User:Timboliu/Business studies. Try to keep the number of pages you create to a minimum, but feel free to create subpages where there is significant separable content. One of the problems with your Beta work was that you created many pages, each with very little content, whereas a single page would have had some substantial content. Start thinking about how others will use resources that you create. I don't want to look at five pages to get five links to Wikipedia, but looking at one page might be useful!

At this point, I suggest that you pull in all or most of the pages you have created in mainspace, to your user space to create an overall-coherent resource.

When you have a coherent resource in your user space, then we will support you in moving it back to mainspace. Thanks for working on Wikiversity. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 15:06, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Timboliu, here is another user (D. B.) wanting that too: Talk:Business/Companies/Triggre:

"I think the design approach of many small pages is distracting to the user, and a smaller quantity of pages with more detail would provide a better learning experience", ----Erkan Yilmaz 15:25, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi Erkan Yilmaz, thank you for this tip. This type of learning resulted on the Dutch wikiversity into a mass deletion of my pages. On the other hand, this is how I learn. I read about something or a hear an interesting question and instead of ignoring it, I have the urge to write this question down. Maybe this is not a best practice and not according to wikiversities policies. I, of course, can also put those questions in a personal space or subpage. I think that writing down a question can trigger other people to give an answer. Regards, Tim, Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 06:42, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

"I, of course, can also put those questions in a personal space or subpage": well, then do that. From the feedback you got here (from at least 3 users), on your beta user page ([3]), and some pages of your projects here ([4]) you see what kind of reaction this all caused. People can use the search or see in the recent changes and that also "can trigger other people to give an answer", ----Erkan Yilmaz 08:37, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Erkan Yilmaz, I will use my personal space more. I also decided to set up my own wiki so I will only focus on two learning projects: domains and business. Thanks for the feedback. Regards, Tim, Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 11:23, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

I'd be okay with it in main space, but only under a single learning project. As I have asked Timboliu several times, please tell us what that one overall project is. I'd be happy to even use my bot to move the pages once we know what the overall project title is. If a single project title isn't possible, then user space might be preferred until the project is better organized. I can also use my bot to move content to user space if that would be helpful. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 17:08, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Dave Braunschweig, no problem to move them to a single learning project. I will do that. And regarding your question regarding the overall project. As a business consultant I like to know what's going on in companies so that I can understand trends in markets. This is why I moved page SuccessFactors to page Business Regards, Tim, Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 06:23, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

• An example of problematic resource naming. OLPC what is that? I can guess from the page, but unless I happen to know the acronym or whatever it is, I won't know what the resource is about from the name. However if this is a subpage of Corporate Social Responsibility, that would be a clue. But better if the name is spelled out. This isn't Wikipedia! Now, I looked it up, it is One Laptop per Child. Which I'd heard of, but it didn't stick in memory that way. So I'm moving that resource. There are quite a few like this, I think. Don't worry, I don't expect you to fix things instantly! Indeed, you don't *have to* fix anything. But as you move toward clearly organization of your work, you will learn what you need to create a Dutch Wikiversity, powerfully. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 22:19, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the tip. Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 05:15, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Categories

You have created categories like

[[Category:Corporate social responsibility|{{SUBPAGENAME}}]]

The magic word SUBPAGENAME does not appear to do anything within a category name. Generally, we want categories to appear as-they-are, not with some substitute name that could create confusion. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 00:19, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Football website?

Corporate social responsibility/Football portal The link at the bottom "tooling" links to Football website/tooling which has a backlink to Football website which is a redirect to CSR/football portal which is a redirect to Corporate social responsibility/Football portal. Now, I'll fix the double redir straightaway, I created that myself by not being careful. (Normally I check for incoming links when moving pages, sometimes I get sloppy.)

But what I notice now is that there is a resource to look at the web tools used by football websites. What does this have to do, even remotely, with Corporate social responsibility?

Websites are websites, football clubs are football clubs. They have lights in their locker rooms. What brand of light bulb do they use? Now, I can image researching that as some kind of student project, to teach people to make phone calls or visits and ask questions. It's not impossible.

But I can say what this looks like. It looks like you create resources out of whatever fact or material you come across. You collect a couple of facts, and make a resource. However, the chance that anyone will ever become interested in this is somewhere between the probability of the sky falling and never. Okay, an exaggeration, already. I think the football club web site tool research project goes in your user space, and it is delinked from the CSR pages. Okay?

(People use "what links here" to research things, and there should be some connection! or we waste their time. ) --Abd (discuss • contribs) 00:34, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

• Actually, I haven't fixed the double redir I created, because there is a huge pile of them. Pages have been moved and removed without attending to double redirs. And it is not clear what the final structure should be, so I'm putting it off. I will provide guidance for you to fix it, instead of doing it myself. That's part of what they could have done on Beta, was give you the opportunity to clean up what you had created. Cleaning up 5000 pages, a lot of work, but the plus would have been that in the process, you could have saved a lot of content. For the future, we will attempt to establish those kinds of practices on Beta: learning by doing. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 00:40, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Resource case

There are two kinds of case used in resource names, traditionally.

• Sentence case. First letter capitalized, none other. Only Proper nouns capitalized.
• Title case. All Nouns capitalized. There is no clear standard that is universal.

Wikiversity prefers sentence case for resource names, but where a family of resources uses something else, we don't just barge in and change it.

However uncapitalized resource names are quite nonstandard, and confusing. In mainspace top level pages, the case of the first letter does not make a difference, i.e. Cold fusion and cold fusion point to the same page. But in subpages, case matters, i.e., Cold fusion/Recent sources obviously points to a different page than Cold fusion/recent sources. My strong opinion, then, is that sentence case should be used, and uncapitalized resource names should only be used with some special and clear need.

The software as configured does not allow the creation of uncapitalized names in mainspace. Why is unknown to me. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 01:19, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip. I capitalized some of the pages. I will do a check on all my contributions. Cheers, Tim, Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 12:00, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Moving pages

• When you move a page, be sure to check for subpages and move them too.
• See subpages of RuralWeb. (If you click on that, you will be taken to the moved location. At the top there will be a link to the original page, which is now a redirect, you can go to that page if you need, which sometimes we need to do for What links here.
• To see all subpages of a page, use Special:PrefixIndex. Enter the page name in the box. From the display of [5], I see there are a *lot* of subpages, so instead of moving them yourself, you would ask a custodian. I'm going to move RuralWeb back, because the final destination of RuralWeb should be established before moving such a large page structure. You are talking about deleting it. I don't know that this is a good idea. If it is to be deleted, the whole page structure should go as well.
• (Page moves cannot be done as one command, but undoing them, not. So that's why with a large structure, a custodian should be asked, and that's why ordinary users don't have the subpage move option.)
• To complete instructions for moving pages, check What links here for the page. If any link to a page is a redirect, that redirect should be changed to point to the final destination, to eliminate a double redirect, which fails. When eliminating double redirects, if the intermediate redirect has no incoming links, it should be tagged for deletion. Whenever a redirect has no incoming links, it should probably be tagged; an exception is where there may be external web sites with links to the redirected page. That may be noted on Talk for the redirect, so that others don't notice it and tag it for deletion, or a custodian will see that there is a Talk page.
• Subpage links continue to work when the entire page structure is moved. That is why we strongly recommend using subpage links instead of explicit, full links, which don't work when the page structure is moved. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 13:47, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Abd, I will look into this. Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 11:17, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

The English word "backlog"

definition It seems you have using it just to mean "log," i.e, a record of what has been done. That can be confusing.

[As an example,] we have no backlog of pages to be speedy deleted here, it would show at Category:Candidates for speedy deletion. There is one page there, where the template that loads that category was added today. However, we have a log of all deletions at Special:Log/delete. Looking at that log may give you some appreciation for what custodians actually do, all the time, with few people noticing. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 18:47, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi Abd, I'm not sure what you mean. Can't I use the term 'backlog' on my pages? For me a backlog is a 'an accumulation of tasks unperformed or materials not processed', things to do. Regards, Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 05:44, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Of course you can use it. However, the word implies something wrong or a problem. It isn't used for a to-do list, which are often simply called "To-do." It isn't used as a log of actions taken. That is an action log. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 12:30, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Best Practices

Please stop creating new main-level content until other pages are cleaned up. What's missing in all of these creations is that the pages you are creating have widely varying meanings depending on context, and therefore cannot be main-level pages.

Domains means many different things. Most common is likely Internet domains, which has nothing to do with the Domains project you've created. Abd has asked you on the talk page to explain which meaning of domains that project refers to, but you haven't responded yet.

The same problem exists with Best practices. There are easily hundreds of different definitions of best practices, depending on the industry, the organization, the country of origin, etc., etc. What learning project is Best practices associated with?

Separately, please use internal sister links with Wikipedia. That is, Wikipedia:Problem solving or w:Problem solving rather than the http URL.

Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 12:30, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Hi Dave Braunschweig, sorry for the inconvenience. Is it possible to move page Domains and all of the subpages to Modelling? I will move page Best practices myself. This was not on purpose, I forget the slashes. I will also try to remember about the sister linking. Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 13:49, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

There are enough subpages there that a sysop move is appropriate, without redirect creation. Thanks for requesting that. I have requested deletion for Best practices, you could have done that yourself. I added {{delete|only link from creator user talk}} to the top of the page. Dave, we should create a Template:Move request for such. The template doc will explain that this is generally for page/subpage moves, to reduce work in cleanup after such. I was about to move Domains to Timboliu user space.... But he is now building a learning resource, and we can work on ameliorating harm from the low actual learning content. (I.e., on the top level page, links to subpages should state that there is no learning content there, if that's so, but that those pages are invitations to create such.)

Timboliu, you should do this, but if you don't know how, watch what I later do. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 14:21, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

• Dave, I know Timboliu well enough to know he won't freak out if I say that he is largely clueless about creating Wikiversity content.

• He knows that I stand for Wikiversity to be a learning resource for anyone who cares to learn and who is willing to learn. Unless I act to handle the situation differently, Beta lost an opportunity to demonstrate how to help clueless users learn, by deleting over 5000 pages, the entire Dutch Wikiversity, where Timboliu had been the major (but not only) contributor, and by rejecting proposals to move his content to his user space, as he requested.

• Essentially, Timboliu represents a learning opportunity for us, as to setting up procedures and ultimately policy about the organization of content. He's quite a good participant in that way, because he is not disruptive, other than through a certain level of cluelessness, he is actually cooperative when guided.

• On Beta, he created no disruption, himself, over the mass deletion, though he was obviously distressed. On about any other project, having created such a huge pile of what was called "garbage" and "trash" and worse, he'd have been banned. He gave them no excuse for trying to ban him, at all. I did, of course. I do that kind of thing. So far, the Beta custodians have supported me, leaving the Dutch custodian, newly elected, and two of his "friends," in quite a huff, complaining about Beta and voting for it to be shut down on meta, because Beta won't block me for documenting what happened.

• Having deleted the whole project, those few users have gone almost completely inactive, and only one of them remained active, blaming me for everybody else stopping work, though there had been zero interference with their work, but they had been clueless about what the "Dutch Wikiversity" was, mistaking the entire Beta project for the "Dutch Wikiversity." (In fact, when they started, members of Category:NL were about a third of the project, apparently. When they deleted almost the entire content of that category, one of them removed the category from one of the only pages left, apparently believing that it was enough that the page be in a subcategory of a Dutch category, a total misunderstanding of how Beta works. And when I attempted to point that out, I was attacked again. They consider advice "insulting." Great start for nl.wikiversity, eh?

• What is being demonstrated there, quite clearly, is all the mistakes that Wikipedians will make in trying to create a Wikiversity to host what they see as "educational resources." Which is a very stiff and traditional idea of material intended to be used in a classroom. (It's an approach that is actually rejected in academia, in the educational field, it is known to frequently fail, educationally.)

• They have commented that resources in mainspace should be "complete." So you can see how they detested what Timboliu did (the same there as here). One of them commented that it was much harder to create an educational resource (the way he thinks of it) than to create an encyclopedic article, which could be correct, though not universally true. They have set up a problem for themselves that they are not actually interested in solving, for the most part. They don't know how to use a wiki to foster the creation work by an entire community, that grows and improves with time and participation. They very possibly don't understand how Wikipedia was formed, with piles of unsourced stubs. It was only later that strong deletionism appeared, an inevitable result in a true encyclopedic project, though there could have been alternatives (such as w:WP:PWD or what I called "junkyard space" -- but user space could have been utilized just as easily, if junkyard *categories* were allowed, for example, with my Favorite Topic, Category:Junk/Cold fusion). In my generation, junkyards were fantastic places to go to find material that had been useless to someone, even the majority of people, but that was still useful for others. Gradually, they went out of business, and now people complain about recycling, when junkyards used to make money off of it.

• So the opportunity is actually quite broad, to stand for Wikiversities everywhere, to continue to fill the gap in education represented by the domination of encyclopedic or "approved content" projects. That, in my view, is the Great White Hope of the WMF, because problems with other projects (such as violation of neutrality policy through domination of a POV faction that includes administrators on Wikipedia) can ultimately be neutrally addressed here, as academia generates analysis of topics that become sources for Wikipedia (Wikiversity will never be Reliable Source, but consensus here, based on what is in reliable source, could have an impact on Wikipedia once there is broad representation here). Attack on other projects and on users at other projects will continue to be discouraged. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 15:00, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

@Timboliu: Yes, I'd be happy to do the move. But here's my proposal. Modelling itself should not be a main project. For many people, modeling (or the European modelling) involves a runway and nice clothes. The Modelling page says that it is part of the System development project. So, let's move Modelling under System development where it belongs, and then move Domains under Modelling. The other option would be to put both Modelling and Domains under System development. Either approach is okay with me. Then we will have a single learning project container that is consistent with your efforts. Let me know which of these options you prefer. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 16:35, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Hello Dave Braunschweig, thank you for the suggestions. I would prefer the second option. Placing them under system development. Regards, Tim, Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 06:35, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Y Done -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 17:14, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

repeat request for consultation before creating mainspace resources

Tim, again, today, you created The New Enterprise which is, my opinion, inappropriate for mainspace. The name, using capital letters, implies an existing specific organization, when this is just another learning circle focused on innovation. I have moved it, and, looking around, there is still plenty of stuff to clean up. If you want to create new resources without consulting first, please do it in your user space. I have moved the page to Learning communities/Business/New enterprise.

Continuing to create new learning circles without any other participation may not be such a great idea, either. It's easy to create a Wikiversity resource, including learning circles, but you seem to create them on a whim, instead of something more developed, and you don't then develop what you create, often, leading to the Beta mess.

I highly recommend spending some time working on existing resources, developing your skills at working with others here. We are in the process of organizing Wikiversity, and that project needs help; in order to help, you'd need to have an idea of what we mean by "organizing." Watch Recent Changes, see what's happening.

It's all new and we are working it out, but it's fairly clear what doesn't fit in mainspace top level. There is a ton of stuff that really doesn't fit there, as will become obvious as you gain familiarity with en.wikiversity. Pick a Random Page here, and it's usually out of place in some way. That is because of how Wikiversity developed, with ideals of high inclusiveness but the community never did the hard work of figuring out how to structure it, people did this and that, it was never complete, etc. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 16:05, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Hello Abd, I forgot, again, to create the page in subpage. Sorry. Thanks for removing the page. Regarding your suggestion to work on existing resources; a lot of resources that are created are often not the stuff I'm interested in. But I will keep your suggestion to limit the number of learning projects in mind. Regards, Tim, Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 07:38, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

If you only support stuff you are interested in, then you do not create community that would support you if Stuff Happens, as you saw on Beta. I'm talking about just being present to Wikiversity as a whole, widening your perspective. Consider that business advice and this our little business learning circle. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 12:04, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Hello Abd, I will also look at learning projects to participate in. Today I saw for instance a page about innovation. And I'm also interested in web design. Thanks for the tip. Regards, Tim, Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 15:05, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Applications

Hey, Timboliu! Sorry it's been a few days, I'm a busy person. You asked me my favorite kind of application, which would be virtual machines and interpreters. I know that's not the kind of applications you were looking for! All jokes aside I like GIMP and Notepad++. How do you plan on having this organized? Is there some kind of special format you want to go by? --I8086 (discuss • contribs) 14:31, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi I8086, I also like Notepad++! A format is a good idea. For WebMaker I added a 'category' and 'website' at the top of the page. I would like to suggest to do this on all te pages. Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 09:08, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Great! I'll use that page as a reference for the other pages. --I8086 (discuss • contribs) 22:15, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

a deletion request of yours

User:Timboliu/Applications/Overview/Password manager. Reason you gave: "content moved." You could make this simpler.

• Don't copy page content to another page, generally. Move the page. That is then transparent in page history. (But if you are adding the content to an already-existing page, then maybe. There are also history merges that will preserve the full history. If you are the only editor, it doesn't usually matter.)
• You may request any page, that only you edited, be deleted. "Author request" is a standard speedy deletion reason. "Author request, content copied elsewhere" is okay, but ... it provides no information that will be retained and publically readable. If you do want to retain that information, point to the page it was copied to!
• When you move a page, a redirect is automatically created. Check for incoming links with "what links here." If there are none, then you would generally request the redirect be deleted, with reason "no incoming." Place that at the top, do not blank the redirect, and the deletion reason and redirect target, the way most of our custodians delete now, will show in the deletion log and it's possible to track this stuff. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 16:06, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Move learning project Applications from namespace to main space

See Wikiversity:Request custodian action. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 19:58, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Question about Dutch

Hoi! Noticing that you live and work in the Netherlands, you most likely know Dutch.
Now assuming you know Dutch, I have this question about it.
Can I say for "What do we eat?" as "Wat doe wijn eten?", or do I have to do it "Wat eten we?"? Tot binnenkort Timboliu --Atcovi (Talk - Contribs) 02:17, 24 October 2015 (UTC) Hello Atcovi, in Dutch you don't say: Wat doen wij eten?, you say: Wat eten we? Out of curiosity, what is the reason you want to learn Duth? Regards, Tim Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 19:10, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

It's honestly a very nice language, and I might visit the Netherlands soon :) --Atcovi (Talk - Contribs) 21:02, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Atcovi, Ah okay. Nice! Hope you have a nice stay. If you have a question about the Netherlands, places to meet or questions about our language. Feel free to ask. I can also recommend https://www.duolingo.com/ if you want to learn the Dutch language. Regards, Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 09:17, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. --Atcovi (Talk - Contribs) 11:42, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

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Social Organizing

Hello. I added more to your recent suggestion, over here. I suggest that you could start Preliminary WikiJournal of Progressive Sociology or Preliminary WikiJournal of Community Organizing and Development. Maybe I will later. Thank you for your contribution. Michael Ten (discuss • contribs) 04:37, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Michael Ten for your suggestions. Regards, Timboliu (discuss • contribs) 12:13, 12 August 2017 (UTC)