Wikiversity:Help desk/Archive 5

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Cold hands

Copied from w:Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#Cold_hands...

Whenever I'm in a room that has a normal or below tempurature, my hands become really cold- my friends always think I'm holding an icecube next to their skin or shirt whenever I touch them because the cold even goes through clothing when I just lay my hand on their shirt or something. Everybody agrees that it's very odd and that my hands are way more freezing than the next cold person. I don't think this is normal- what could it be? 74.211.8.100 16:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

It could be poor circulation, especially if you also suffer from numbness in the hands. I'd see a doctor if I were you. --StuRat 03:14, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Poor circulation is the most probable cause, but the question remains as to what is causing the poor circulation. There are many possible causes, including medical conditions and use of nicotine or other vasoconstrictors. Only a medical professional can help you pinpoint the exact cause and any other side effects of the primary cause. I, also, would recommend seeing a doctor. 152.16.59.190 08:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
There is a condition (not dangerous just annoying)that is out there and I cant remember the name of it but it results in what you are describing. My daughter has it and her hands are even cold in the dead of summer. There is nothing that she can do about it but live with it. Ecurbbb, 15:04, 29 September 2007
Ecurbbb may be thinking of Raynaud's Disease, see:http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/raynaudsdisease.html One of the symptoms is cold hands and feet, but as the others have said you should visit a doctor. Straylight, 07:00, 7 October 2007

pinched nerve

How can i repair a pinched nerve which is being pressed by a herniated disc ? If there are some execises that I can do can you please tell me ? I have numbness from my right thumb and up my right arm. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.157.127.228 (talk • contribs) .

First, see a doctor, as numbness on one side can be a sign of serious medical conditions, such as a stroke. If the doc gives you the "all clear", you might want to try slow stretching exercises, such as W:Tai chi chuan. If you feel any pain, stop immediately. --StuRat 20:06, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
This Wikibooks edit seems to be the source of the question. This page is for "general knowledge questions". Asking about a personal health problem is not asking a "general knowledge" question, so it is not clear to me why this question was brought here. I suppose the original question can be changed into two questions, one a personal health question and one a general question. An answer to the personal health question might be "see a doctor, as numbness on one side can be a sign of serious medical conditions". Since the issue of how to respond to such questions is under discussion at Wikipedia and Wikibooks and on the Colloquium, I started a page where we can explore these matters; see Medical practice and the law. --JWSchmidt 13:18, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't think exercise info should be included in the category of "banned medical advice", do you ? StuRat 03:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
I think the original questions from the person at 69.157.127.228 can be viewed as an attempt to get medical advice for an existing health problem. I'm thinking that people who come to Wikimedia wiki projects in search of medical advice need to be educated about the nature of these Wikimedia sister projects. I'd like to encourage people to make use of Wikiversity as a place to learn how to obtain good information about medical topics without encouraging them to ask for medical advice. In a sense, we are asking people to play a "game". This page is for "general knowledge questions" and to play the "game", questions posted here should conform to the rules of this "game". Some day Wikiversity will probably have a help desk specifically for people with health-related questions, but even then we will not want to encourage anyone to ask for medical advice. --JWSchmidt 04:11, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree that parts of the question do appear to be asking for medical advice, and I referred them to a doctor for those. For the part about exercises, though, that seemed appropriate for us to answer here, to me: "If there are some exercises that I can do can you please tell me ?". StuRat 13:12, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Calculus

--59.96.202.70 15:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC) integral of sin u / u ?

meaning of a word

--71.228.64.215 17:47, 8 September 2007 (UTC)Amorous

definition at Wiktionary. --JWSchmidt 17:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
And, if that site lacks the word you seek, try www.onelook.com, which looks up a word in multiple dictionaries, as well as providing synonyms and word origins. StuRat 15:28, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Relative Age of Races

Copied from: w:Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#Relative_Age_of_Races. StuRat 01:33, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Is it true that the Negroid race is approxiamately 225,000 years, the Caucasoid race is approximately 110,000 years old and the Mongoloid race is about 40,000 years old? 4.242.18.225 14:37, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that's essentially correct. Of course, you will get arguments from the "politically correct" crowd who will say that races don't exist (ironically many of those are the same people who favor racial-based hiring quotas). One interesting case is the w:Ainu people in w:Japan, who are Caucasian, and apparently were there from before the origins of the Mongoloid race. StuRat 01:26, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
StuRat, your response is neither true nor informed, and I find your having copied it here in order to avoid discussion on the reference desk cowardly and intellectually dishonest. Way to go. --24.147.86.187 14:43, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
There are many genetically inherited characteristics which are described as "race". One such characteristic is the eyelid folds common in the Mongoloid race. If you disagree with me, don't insult me, but rather provide evidence that I am wrong. I've posted my response here to prevent it from being deleted by those who might disagree. StuRat 03:19, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
StuRat, it would be contradictory if people who say that races don't exist favored racial-based hiring quotas. In Brazil, people who say that races don't exist are those who oppose hiring quotas, and are therefore consistent and coherent. The first example that comes to mind (and would probably come to mind of most Brazilians) is w:Veja magazine, that strongly opposes race-based quotas for students to get into college. I am one of those who think human races don't exist, but where I live it's probably much easier to see things that way. There are few black or white people, most are mixed. a.z. 04:22, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it is contradictory, that was my point. I believe you're correct in saying that the races are more mixed in Brazil than elsewhere. Some countries, like Japan, are almost exclusively one race, so that any other race sticks out. I am also opposed to racially-based quotas, as they tend to inflame racial divisions. Instead, I would propose economic assistance to all low-income university students who can pass the admissions tests, regardless of race. Such a program would help to ease the racial inequalities in a society. StuRat 01:14, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
  • "When responding to help desk questions, place emphasis on providing links to useful sources of information." --JWS 03:34, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Disagreed. See here. a.z. 04:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

managing community information centers

--196.201.151.6 09:31, 19 September 2007 (UTC) i just got a job that requires me to manage community information centers. i have no knowledge at all,what do i do??

Are you in Africa? What kind of communities? Urban? Rural? Agricultural? Industrial? Do you work for a government? Do the community information centers exist or are they just planned? --JWS 13:40, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm guessing at what you mean here, but if you are talking about an agency that delivers information to the public from various other government agencies, much like the US w:Federal Consumer Information Center, the main emphasis will be on publishing documents and pamphlets produced by other government agencies. They should be printed in the local languages (and tourism brochures in the languages of your tourists). You may have an in-house print shop, may rely on outside print shops, or may get some documents "ready-to-deliver" from certain government agencies. For those who can't read (either illiterate or blind) you may want to also offer some of your most popular pamphlets on audio (provided you have the budget to do so). Finally, you may want to create a web site to deliver info to people who have access to computers.
There are two other problems you'll need to deal with:
1) People need to know that your agency exists. TV, radio, and print ads giving your phone number, street address, and web address will help with this.
2) People need to know what information you can provide, and in which formats (print, audio, or online). A catalog, updated periodically, can provide this info. You can list the entire catalog online. Mailing out the entire catalog might be prohibitively expensive, however. One way to deal with this issue is to make the catalog available at local libraries, perhaps along with some of the more frequently requested documents. Some documents, like tax forms (if it's your responsibility to distribute those), are not reusable, so you will need to provide libraries with enough copies to give away.
So, your agency will be responsible for the following:
1) Obtaining information to distribute from government agencies.
2) Publishing and cataloging that info.
3) Warehousing printed and audio copies.
4) Advertising that info to the public.
5) Having operators ready to assist information requests. These can be phone operators, computer operators, people opening mail requests, or receptionists handling in-person requests for info.
6) Distributing that info via computers, libraries, and the mail (post).
7) Provide display-sized copies of some information, like First Aid instructions, for those who wish to post the info on a bulletin board at their location.
Also, be sure to put your main office and branch offices in a location which is readily accessible to both foot and vehicle traffic. US states frequently put "welcome centers" along major highways at the entrances to the state. Those centers have maps, information on hotels, tourist attractions, etc. StuRat 17:32, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Neuropsychology

I would like to add material about neuropsychology. As far as wikiversity taxonomy, would it fit under psychology or medicine?

--User:mloxton 11:46, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps put it under medicine but provide a link from psychology ? That way it can appear to be under both. StuRat 13:29, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I'd say it should be the other way around. Neuroscience and psychology are more closely related than neuroscience and medicine. That the material is neuropsychology and not straight neuroscience moves it further in that direction. (If credibility makes a difference, I'm a neuroscience student) Mike.lifeguard | talk 01:19, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
It could have it's own location. There could be a page Neuropsychology that links to additional learning resources on the subject. There could be a Topic:Neuropsychology; and now that I look, it turns out that it already exists. I would recommend that you develop, extend, or link from Topic:Neuropsychology. Additionally, if there already isn't one, there could be a Category:Neuropsychology that could encapsulate all the pages on the subject. --Remi 01:22, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Splendid, I would also like to start building a Knowledge Management section (since I am due to complete a KM Ma is another semester), so where would you like "Knowledge Management" to go? --User:mloxton 06:31, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Do you consider "Knowledge Management" to be computer science, business management, library science or other? You are probably better qualifed than the rest us to know from what areas of human endeaver to link in from since you have been studying KM for a few years in pursuit of a degree. Mirwin 16:00, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
KM is a nexus of Business Management & Leadership, Psychology – cognitive and behavioural, Library and Information Science (LIS), Information Science & Technology (IS&T), and Neuroscience –particularly neuroinformatics and neuropsychology. Since it deals with humans in groups and human artifacts, it also links to anthropology and sociology. It’s about what people and machines *do* rather than what knowledge *is*. If you would like it alongside LIS and IS&T that makes perfect sense, or putting it with psychology also makes sense, but it doesn’t belong with Information Technology. Near Cybernetics could also work. --Mloxton 22:11, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Knowledge management would work. It sounds like it is a traditional discipline that you might find as a department at a brick and mortar institution. In that case, Topic:Knowledge management would also be an appropriate location. If you want to start a course, then Introduction to Knowledge Management or Advanced Knowledge Management, etc. would work as well. I hope that helps. --Remi 13:52, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

what is the function of an animal cheek cell and how does it adapt to carry it out?

copied from here. I guess here the IP could get a faster response. ----Erkan Yilmaz (my talk page, wiki blog) 15:25, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Since it is common for biology students to work with cheek cells from inside the mouth, this question is probably about the epithelial cells from the inner (inside the mouth) surface of the cheek. Like other epithelial layers at the interface of the body and the outside world, cheek epithelial cells form a physical barrier that limits the movement of microbes into the body (not into the mouth; think "into the blood and internal tissues"). A major strategy for this is to make the cytoskeletal protein keratin. Keratin forms long filaments inside epithelial cells. Epithelial cells link keratin-containing cytoskeletal filaments into desmosomes at the cell surface. The network of keratin filaments, desmosomes, and other similar proteins allow the epithelial sheet of cells to hold together and function as a solid physical barrier. Another "adaptation" is for rapid cell division. It is very easy to damage the epithelial layer inside the mouth. New epithelial cells of the inside of the mouth can be produced rapidly, so if a wound is created, the hole in the epithelium can be quickly filled in with new cells. --JWS 17:13, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

computer

--124.7.72.56 08:36, 26 September 2007 (UTC)why we use ram in computer

Can you explain your question a bit? RAM stands for Random Access Memory. It is storage where the computer's CPU (Central Processing Unit) places data it is not currently using but expects to need in the future. Programs are usually loaded into RAM for fast access as the CPU processes them in groups of instructions. More information at Wikipedia.w:Random_access_memory A couple of topic spaces come up in a seachSpecial:Search?search=random+access+memory&fulltext=Search of Wikiversity for {random access memory}. Hope this was helpful. Mirwin 12:25, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I generally agree, but not with the "data it is not currently using" part. Data stored in RAM, like the instructions for the current program which is running, is accessed frequently. I suppose you could say that data being processed in the registers is the only truly currently used data, but the data in the RAM is generally accessed many times a second, so calling that "noncurrent data" seems a bit of an odd way to look at it. Data on the hard drive, CD, flash drive, or other memory device is what I would call "noncurrent". It is read into RAM when used.
Also, any discussion of RAM requires a clarification on their use of the term "random", since they use it in a very strange way. It doesn't mean the memory is accessed randomly, but that any piece of memory can be accessed quickly, in any order wanted, as opposed to older methods for storing data, like tape, which required accessing the data sequentially. StuRat 13:07, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I've never really understood Macintosh OSX memory management, but I think all Macintosh applications are designed to allow distinctions to be made between their use of RAM for more active parts of their code and use of RAM for less active parts of their code. For example, Figure 1 shows results from Apple's "Activity Monitor" when there is still some free RAM. Firefox is shown using about 234 MB "real memory" and 619 MB "virtual memory". Figure 2 shows the memory situation after several more applications are running and free RAM is no longer available. "Active memory" is then larger and "inactive memory" is shrinking; Firefox shows 181 MB "real memory" and 617 MB "virtual memory". Based on this, I want to assume that "real memory" might only count "wired" and "active" memory. If so, it seems that between Figure 1 and Figure 2, Firefox shifted about 53 MB from "active memory" to "inactive memory" during a time when I was not actively using Firefox, just opening other applications. Does anyone know the actual definition of "real memory" in OSX?--JWS 15:47, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
The "active memory" on a mac is what's on the DIMMs (chips). The virtual memory is on the hard disk. --SB_Johnny | talk 07:55, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

What's Baroque painting?

Specifically, the sort of brushstrokes, color, subjects, etc. typically involved. I need a quick 411 for a research paper. --Angelica Klosky 21:31, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

A google(baroque, painting, brushstrokes, color, subjects)[1] yields an interesting list of potential background reading including a Wikipedia article. The Wikipedia article links to another article titled w:Baroque which claims the term applies to a specific time period in the arts. Mirwin 21:36, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Evasive knowledge

What's the best way to attempt a 'multiple choice questions'(MCQs) type tests.Yes, i do know that the foremost thing is that one should have swarm of knowledge concerning the subject in which one is going to have a test,but some knowledge is evasive,hard to pin down and sometimes when question comes infront of anyone,sometimes ambiguity dominates.so in that case what to do? --Aquistive bud 18:17, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

There are many pages like this one on the internet. "If after reading the question and all the options you find that the answer is not immediately apparent, wait a few seconds before you look at the options again." <-- I prefer to mark (?) a question that seems to have no good answer and return to it after completing the rest of the test. It is easy to get your thinking on the wrong track. The longer you wait before looking at a question for the second time, the better chance that your thoughts have re-organized and you will be able to think correctly about the question. If that fails, try re-writing the question and answers in your own words. --JWSchmidt 18:45, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Here are a few factors to consider:
1) Is it a timed test ? In one sense, all tests have a time limit, but time is only the limiting factor on some tests. That is, many tests provide more than enough time to complete them and double check or even triple check the answers. For those tests where time is a limiting factor, you should skip over difficult and/or time consuming questions and come back if you have time.
2) Is there a penalty for guessing ? If not, be sure you guess on every question, even if it's a completely random guess. After all, a 1/4 or 1/5 chance of getting it right is still better than nothing.
3) Even if you don't know which answer is correct, can you at least eliminate some possibilities ? That will increase your odds of getting it right.
4) Another question on the same test will often either answer the question or at least help you eliminate some of the wrong answers. For example, the question "Which of the following founding fathers was not a US President: Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, Adams" might be followed by "Which of the following actions did Jefferson take while President....". Thus, you can eliminate Jefferson from the first question.
5) Unfortunately, test questions are often subjective, so you must know how your teacher thinks and put the answer they think is right, regardless of whether it is really correct or not. Feel free to add a justification for your answer written on the side, too, since that may persuade the teacher your answer was right.
6) Some teachers put patterns in the answers, like A, B, C, D, A, B, C, D,... Once you answer all the Qs you know, the pattern may help with those you don't know. However, never pick an answer you know is wrong, just because it matches the pattern.
7) Double check and triple check your answers, time permitting. StuRat 15:07, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
I can definitely reccommend not trying to find any pattern in the answers, because any prof worth anything will make sure there isn't one. Most exams have a computer-generated answer key, which pseudo-randomly assigns the options. This ensures that no exam will ever have a discernable pattern. As well, try to avoid second-guessing yourself. Implicit memory is surprisingly accurate on recall tests. This becomes less important the more difficult the exam becomes since difficult exams are difficult precisely because all the answers are familiar, rendering implicit memory useless - those are cases where double- and triple-checking answers will make a big difference. Mike.lifeguard | talk 20:27, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Anti-matter

There is proton ,and there also exists antiproton. Each matter has its anti-matter.So ,why doesn't it happen ,i mean interaction of matter and anti-matter leading to destruction of this pretty universe. Another thing ;if there is my own self, is it possible for me to have my anti-self?

--Aquistive bud 18:28, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

It is possible to make antiprotons, but they seem very rare in our part of the universe. The process by which we came to be matter rather than antimatter (or, alternatively, why there is any significant imbalance of matter and antimatter) is not understood. By some estimates, the imbalance between matter and antimatter was only about one part in 10,000,000,000. If those estimates are true then the vast majority of matter that ever existed in our universe was destroyed in matter-antimatter collisions early in the history of the universe and such matter-antimatter annihilation not been an issue for the past 13 billion years or so....until people started wondering about it. --JWSchmidt 19:07, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Matter and antimatter can coexist as long as they are separated by a vacuum. There may be antimatter galaxies or even an entire antimatter "universe" balancing our own. StuRat 15:15, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

study zoology & botany

For a year i loved Botany and botanical terms and plants classification was on my finger tips.But after a year ,there is a washed brain in my skull.i forget it, quickly.The same case is with Kingdom Animalia Although i do know much,but still un-satisfied.What's its solution? --Aquistive bud 18:35, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Spend some time each day at Wikispecies? --JWSchmidt 19:11, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Using computer

I don't know much about how to use computer.Though know a little but how can i educate myself for using this marvel ,i mean computer programming .is there any thing on wikiversity dealing with such computer ignorant persons, to educate them? --Aquistive bud 18:41, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

One starting place is Introduction to Programming. --JWSchmidt 19:13, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

miracle

O ,thanks a lot for providing me this link. I'll be there regularly after giving my test that isto be held at the end of this month ---Well, i want to ask that what place we can give to "miracle"in our study of science? Another question i got stuck with,in ethane c-c bond is form by which of the following overlaping a.sp-sp --b.sp3-sp3 --c.sp2-sp2 i think none of the option is correct.isn't that so?Aquistive bud 16:34, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Sometimes in science people use the term "miracle" to refer to particularly great advances, for example see miracle year. The term "miracle" is sometimes used to refer to important and surprising medical advances and biomedical discoveries such as Mary Walker's "Miracle of St. Alfege's Hospital" (discovery of a way to treat myasthenia gravis). In the context of "true miracles" or supernatural events, most scientists prefer to do without. --JWS 18:26, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

carbon-to-carbon single bonds

According to Wikipedia carbon-to-carbon single bonds in molecules such as ethane form by the overlap of two sp³-orbitals of different carbon atoms. --JWS 17:53, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

retail space

--221.134.201.233 07:11, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

need to know about retail space and time.
Do you mean shelf space, the amount of space allocated to each vendor and/or product at a retail store ? If so, see planogram for some info. StuRat 17:24, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Inquiry for a research project

--Zina 09:15, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi, My name is Zina, I am a graduate student at the University of Saskatchewan and I am currently enrolled in a Software Engineering course. For this class I need to submit project on an exploratory topic of my choice. I chose researching requirements elicitation in Open Source Software. I wonder how the process of defining requirements, eliciting user’s requirements and note the differences between Open Source and other software in this matter. Could you please advise? Thanking you in advance for your time and support. Hope to hear from you soon!

Best Regards, Zina

There are resources at Wikipedia and Wikibooks such as PREview. There might be some participants at School:Computer science or Topic:Software engineering who can help you. Wikiversity is very new, so feel free to start a new page about requirements elicitation. --JWS 13:43, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I've worked in software development, and it always struck me that the requirements phase was rather one-sided. That is, the customers stated what they wanted, then this was written up and passed on to the programmers (or, even worse, the programmers developed code without any input from the customers). A more equitable situation would have the customers meet with the programmers, with the customers stating what they desired and the programmers stating what could be provided in a timely and cost-effective manner. Hopefully a better solution could be found for software development in this manner. Otherwise, you can end up with programmers spending vast resources to provide functions the customer doesn't really need, while potentially more useful software capabilities are not provided, simply because the customers assumed they were impossible. For example, non-programmers often assume that the greater the volume of data provided, the more programming work is required. Thus, they might assume that providing a query for the top 100 vendors by volume is less work than providing the entire list, when the opposite is actually true. I'm hopeful that open source development will take both customer needs and programming realities into consideration for more efficient coding. StuRat 17:34, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
When defining reqs, two things that must be considered are default settings and program logic. Error conditions should also be discussed (such as insufficient available disk space) and error handling methods should be defined as part of the requirements. Performance criteria (response time, disk space usage, etc.) should also be defined. StuRat 18:02, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

One huge difference is that the programmer is often the primary user of his own product. As the product gets circulated some discussion, comments, request for features, etc gets started on mailing lists, wikis, web sites, etc. The open source project quickly faces a decision. Will the programming team attempt to satisfy other users' needs and desires at the cost of much work or satisfy only their own desires? The ranges of answers is infinite and specific solutions generally depend on individuals' goals with the project. Are they attempting to establish a personal reputation as a technical wizard, impress their friends, establish a robust user community that might eventually support a professional development team, have some fun with beer and computers on the weekend, create a tool for personal use, etc? You may find the open source user community at http://www.advogato.org a useful place to ask this question. They have many experienced programmers that are combinations of volunteers, compensated professionals, hobbyists, etc. You need community priveleges to start a front page article there but if you explain yourself as you have here in your account diary and ask someone to start a discussion topic they will probably point you to an existing article or start one for you. You can probably find the topic addressed in the past so a google search of the site might be useful. Keep an eye on the recent entries log for potential responses to your question in the individual diary entries. Good luck!

Gimp has a blog devoted to suggestions pertaining to the interface. That seems to be sort of a mix between suggestions and requests. Blender has a MediaWiki wiki and they have a section for requests. --Remi 06:20, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Zina 04:36, 25 October 2007 (UTC) A great thanks to everyone! Your support is great! A special thanks to StuRat!

You're quite welcome ! StuRat 01:03, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

cardiology

defebrilator --203.153.35.33 11:04, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

See defibrillation first. Then, if you have unanswered questions, come back here and ask. (Note that this device isn't all that effective, and one study showed that a toilet plunger used on the chest is just as effective.) StuRat 17:04, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Actually, defibs (both AEDs and fully-manual) are highly effective under normal circumstances. Any study using a toilet plunger to test its effectiveness in treating cardiac arrest/arrythmia is criminal. Do you mind providing a citation for the paper for that study? I'm dying to see how someone got that past ethics!
Try b:First Aid/Automated External Defibrillation and the 2005 ILCOR paper in Circulation as well. Mike.lifeguard | talk 03:20, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
It was a study of people who didn't have defibrillation equipment available, so tried other methods, like hitting the chest with clenched fists, using a toilet plunger, etc. The problem with defibrillation equipment is it frequently isn't available until it's too late, while everyone has a toilet plunger handy. (A secondary problem is that nonprofessionals using defibrillation equipment often get poor results, such as an electrical arc across the sweaty skin.) Thus, using the toilet plunger instead of waiting was recommended, in such cases. StuRat 00:58, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Also, I disagree that defibs are "highly effective in normal circumstances". Had you said "...in ideal circumstances", then I would agree, but it is rarely the case that trained paramedics or doctors are present, with a defib unit, when a heart attack occurs. StuRat 15:39, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
I consider normal circumstances to be when a defib is available (how could one use it if it's not present?!), that the operator is trained in how to use it properly, and that is it used properly. Under those circumstances (which are nothing extraordinary), defib gets good results. If the study was comparing a defib which wasn't available for use to some other (stupid) ideas, then of course it's not going to work. It can't be used unless it's physically present. I still want to see the paper. Can you provide a citation for it at least? Mike.lifeguard | talk 16:51, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't think you understand. A defib unit will eventually become available, once people figure out that the victim needs help and call emergency services and they arrive with the unit, but the effectiveness of the unit is greatly reduced by each passing minute. Alternatively, some places (I've seen some in highway rest stops) now have portable defib units, but untrained people must either take time to figure out how to use them or risk using them improperly. These are the reasons why alternate methods, including the toilet plunger, are sometimes used, because they are available in more places and don't require training or reading instructions. Here's an article (although this one is more of a comparison with other CPR methods than with a defib unit): [2]. StuRat 01:21, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
You're confusing whether or not defibs get good results when used with other factors such as whether EMS response times or PAD programs can have significant effect. The answer to all of which is "yes."
You said "this device isn't all that effective, and one study showed that a toilet plunger used on the chest is just as effective." It is effective, and you've failed to provide a study comparing a toilet plunger's effectiveness to a defibrillator's effectiveness.
This isn't helping the original poster, so I'll leave it be. Mike.lifeguard | talk 16:05, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
I will grant you that "given that a defib unit with properly trained personnel is available immediately when the cardiac event occurs", then the defib unit would be a better choice. However, the effectiveness of a defib unit drastically plunges with each passing minute after the event, so the real choice is between using a toilet plunger immediately, verus a defib unit when it's too late to be effective. Given that choice, the toilet plunger is often the better option. You seem to always use "the effectiveness of defib units in ideal conditions" in your examples, whereas I use "the real-world effectiveness of defib units", which includes being used too late, and often by untrained people. The chances that a defib unit will be used in "ideal conditions" is almost zero, as even people who have a cardiac event inside a hospital are still unlikley to be treated immediately and appropriately, unless they have a heart monitor attached and/or an attentive nurse lucky enough to witness, understand, and act immediately upon, the event.StuRat 17:39, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Morcopolo---/recipes

Hi,Good day! can i have any link related to life and adventures of morcopolo here,please.

--secondly i want to add my recipes of some chilly-sour type dishes.so is such stuff supported here or not?

can someone please advise me...cheers,--Aquistive bud 12:27, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

There is School:Gastronomy and School:Food and Drink. Also, there are pages such as Cookbook at Wikibooks. --JWS 13:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
For the other part, see Marco Polo. StuRat 16:55, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!--Aquistive bud 18:13, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


westminster and Princess Diana

Hi Sturat! Good day! i wanna say thanks for your buttress concerning all the questions i put here specially for the information you provided about morcopolo. Can you please guide about the relation of Diana and the location westminster. Her activities there and the other concerns .Hopefully your feedback will be as splendid as for ,"Morcopolo", cheers,--Aquistive bud 13:41, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome...Palace of Westminster has info about the palace itself, including the location, while Diana Spencer has info about her relationship with the royal family. She started out having a good relationship with them, then many were a bit jealous of her ability to capture the imagination and love of the British public, while the rest of the royals all seemed a bit "stuffy", by comparison. After her divorce, her relationship with most of the royals became rather strained. Also, you aren't spelling Marco Polo correctly, which is probably why you weren't able to find info yourself. StuRat 15:26, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Awesome!Thanks a lot for your time and info.O! yeah ,i didn't pay attention to my mis-spelled word.Thanks for your correction.cheers,--Aquistive bud 15:55, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome. StuRat 01:42, 1 November 2007 (UTC)