Learning from conflict and incivility/Erkan Yilmaz

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see aims of this project


User:JWSchmidt[edit]

me versus them

I once asked JWS if he sees some recent actions as: "me vs them" - I think I am responsible in that now many people think badly about JWS. Probably all these incidents lead to this: JWS feels more isolated. How can I help now ?

"Welcoming: For JWSchmidt, "welcoming" means deleting or merging as little content as possible. JWSchmidt believes that deleting and merging content is rude and shows hostility to newcomers and their "seedling" projects. This is very important to JWSchmidt." (source)


User:JWSchmidt is not the only user who has a certain view on deletion:

  • I remember when I started at WV (de + en) I was also always one of the first to delete:
    • And as of today (2008-09-13) I am still leading at en.WV + de.WV in the deletion stats. Just looked it up: from the persons who can use the delete button in all 10 WVs I have deleted the most WV pages: 1417. So, am I a "deletionist" ?
    • What made me change my behaviour ? My deeper involvement and seeing people come and go ? Seeing in the RCs the many (unsuccessful) attempts to participate ? I think at one point when you see this all you ask yourself (and everyone of us has a different answer to these questions):
      • Why is every one here at Wikiversity ?
      • How can I help you increase your happiness level ? Smiley.svg
      • What can this all evolve to when we just wait more ?
Normally when I see copy + paste of Wikipedia I write a comment to the author (see e.g. Wikiversity:What Wikiversity is not, section: "A duplication of other Wikimedia projects"). But today I have seen for the first time something different. JWSchmidt has "rescued" this page to Wikiversity. While chating with him I got to know this project: Wikiversity:Wikimedia Garbage Detail - great idea and probably one of the means to achieve the mission of Wikiversity.
  • how would the wiki-verse be when there is no delete button anymore ? More happy or unhappy people ? [1]
    • How about when anyone can delete ?
    • How about when all participants in a wiki have or have not same access to tools ?
  • Who is to blame (is blaming a correct approach ?) that people think (unconscious): WV = WP ? Is it some elements at Wikipedia (which is known far more than other wikis - and that they have and are and will influence (future) participants to only think in one direction only what a wiki can be ?) ? Is it human's own thinking/need ? How can people here at WV still overcome their unconscious thinking: that WV = WP ? Diversity (in opinions) is just interesting.
  • I also think that deletion debates are a good thing, people get to know what other participants ideas of WV are. This helps WV.

User:Moulton[edit]

I am a part of it (same image as above, different POV)
  • I once told Moulton: you would be a very valuable resource at WV if you would not mention WP in every sentence
    • When I joined the Teamspeak chat, I listen to Moulton's voice and can "see" his deep emotions.
  • Recently when Moulton was searching for a song topic I requested one from him: "Moulton and Wikiversity in 7 years" (no response so far :-(). This brought me the urge to make this edit:
"Imagine: participants after being 7 years at Wikiversity (and forget their "actions" from begin - agf)" ([2])


Asking myself[edit]

where is the next mirror?
  • Why is chatting to relieve one's emotions - which worked before - not used anymore ?

Talk-icon.svg JWS and McCormack didn't chat (yet), [3]

Is it because "external" people are stressing some WV participants here until it all turns out to take forms like on other wikis now ?
  • For a conflict there is more than one person necessary and I give many people the "blame" (including myself - see above). Do I and others realize what was done wrong?
    • I just have a certain amount of time per day to do things - I started too late to "act" (whatever that means)
    • But: this is a wiki - god damn it - everybody can edit - why had it come so far ? Ask yourself ! Was your own time also more important than influencing/helping ?


Emotions I had[edit]

showing human facial muscles
  • After having seen how things between User:JWSchmidt and User:McCormack turned out - with a review request - I didn't contribute much thereafter the next day. I wondered why people didn't learn from the incidents before from newcomers (who don't yet understand WV's philosophy - hopefully they will eventually) ? I had thoughts of leaving WV (I am not kidding) - I released my thoughts in chat and felt better afterwards. And as one person said there: it was good to relieve things which stress oneself. I also let my feelings out by creating Which hands do you think is best (for Wikiversity) ?
  • Sometimes Moulton's actions make me very angry, and sometimes I feel guilty towards Moulton.
  • The talk on this talk page finally helped me decide to release my thoughts to the public, too. I already feel calm now after writing this.
  • I am also disappointed in one person (won't tell name). I hope that with this edit I will overcome this when reading this previous sentence after a few days