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"Knowledge grows when shared." — Bhartrihari (discuss)

VisualEditor default for new users?[edit source]

What are out current settings on whether VisualEditor is the default? I've had a few new users tell me that they've often had source editor seem to come up as their default editor unless they specifically change it. Therefore:

  1. Is it possible to make VisualEditor the default interface for new users?
  2. Would people like to activate this?
  3. Are there other useful VE settings options to consider?

T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)talk 11:50, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

I guess it depends on the users. People that edit/author learning resources with much workload to create mathematical formulas in LaTeX might prefer source editor in comparison to visual editor. I would recommend, that user answer a checkbox in the registration/login process if they prefer visual or source editor. The link includes a wikiversity link to help page, that shows/explains PROs and CONs of visual and source editor, so that new users can make sound decision about editor default settings.
But my opinion is not representative in the community --Bert Niehaus (discusscontribs) 12:02, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
Visual editing is still a beta feature (Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-betafeatures). It is not on by default (mw:VisualEditor/Rollouts), and not widely adopted (1,500+ users at present). We have to request that it be enabled. The last time I tried, it only got one vote. People need to engage if we're going to improve the Wikiversity experience. And, if there's any support for this, I also recommend that we enable the mw: UploadWizard. Most file uploads to Wikiversity are deleted due to incomplete or improper licensing. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 13:09, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
Definitely also agree with activating mw: UploadWizard. Uploading files to wikiversity is still pretty clunky, and I've found often trips up users that are used to commons or wikipedia. T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)talk 23:17, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

I've had a couple of additional new editors struggle with source editing (especially tables, example). Several have expressed frustration at the multiple steps required to find out that visualeditor exists and how to activate it. Is the request process particularly long? Does it need to be done here or over at MW? All wikijournal contributors who weren't already experienced wikipedians that I've spoken to have expressed a preference for visualeditor (especially for pages with tables and references). T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)talk 02:34, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

@Evolution and evolvability: See the item below on the Discussion Reply Tool. We have to have a discussion and vote. Once there is consensus, we submit a Phabricator ticket. How long it takes for that to be processed depends on who accepts the task and what's involved. Some things can take a week or two. Others have stalled out after months of waiting. Sometimes, we can ping someone and get it picked up again. But for now, we need a discussion and vote before we can initiate the ticket. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 14:41, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
@Dave Braunschweig and Bert Niehaus:: What would be the next steps to implement this? I think it's reasonable to say the consensus is to activate VE as the default, with the option for experienced editors to switch to editing source code if they prefer. T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)talk 12:24, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
@Evolution and evolvability: Create a Phabricator request and include a link to this discussion. Then wait. If it takes more than a month, ask them what additional information they need or how we can help the request move forward. Then wait some more. Sometimes it goes very quickly, sometimes not. They're all volunteers, too. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 14:18, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
@Dave Braunschweig: Done (link). All welcome to review and edit the request. T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)talk 01:51, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
phabricator request marked as implemented and ticket closed as resolved. T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)talk 10:20, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Discussion[edit source]

We have a proposal to make the VisualEditor the default editor. We need to determine whether this is for all users or only for all logged-in users. Please discuss and vote. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 14:41, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

(From VE and Source Code Editing) The VE will be good for newbies. The source code editor will be necessary to move on to more specific modification of learning resources e.g. editing of quizzes, mathematical syntax and or specific interactive elements of learning resource in the future. If people are taught to use VE only, they might have difficulties to change to source code editing later, e.g. for mathematical expressions the authors might not be able to edit the syntax because they were never exposed mathematical expression or mathematical syntax in general, that is needed in computer science, chemistry, physics, ... . The VE will reduced possible obstacles for beginners and shift those obstacles to a later phase of advanced authoring, in which the source code editing might be without alternative. It would be of advantage to guide authors from the VE to source code editing or visualize changes within the VE simultaneously in a source code editing window or visualizes source code for cross-checking before saving, ....? --Bert Niehaus (discusscontribs) 13:48, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
@Bert Niehaus: Regarding training, My understanding is that we've minimal training material currently. One possibility is specific training material on wikiversity on what can't be done in VE but can be done in source editor. Alternatively, is this information already already on another wiki's help pages that we can simply point to? T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)talk 00:52, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
Maybe just an additional button/checkbox "Show Wiki Source before publishing" next to "Publish Change" could be one option to increase visibility of source syntax, so that switching to source code editing runs smoothers. May also advanced users may change their workflow, e.g. writing the text and sections with VE and then finally before publishing the authors add the mathematical expressions source code for the learning resource.--Bert Niehaus (discusscontribs) 10:39, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Voting[edit source]

  • Symbol support vote.svg Support making VisualEditor the default editor for all users. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 14:41, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support --Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 17:13, 14 May 2020 (UTC)--Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 17:13, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support - experienced editors are experienced enough to switch to source code, but new editors find it challenging to work out how to switch to VE. T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)talk 12:13, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support - I know people struggle with the html so anything to make things easier Rwatson1955 (discusscontribs) 12:35, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support - What year are we in? Of course a visual editor should be the first thing anybody sees . . . we already have enough problems with attracting new editors, and having a clunky code editor as the first thing people see is not exactly welcoming. --- FULBERT (discusscontribs) 13:01, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support for the same reasons as Shafee - significantly more welcoming to new folks and not a problem for experienced editors Zeromonk (discusscontribs) 14:41, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support As a trainer (working mainly in Wikipedia) I've seen that VE can be really helpful in getting new editors on board, so supporting here for the same reason. Lirazelf (discusscontribs) 14:45, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support The VE is much less intimidating and may encourage more participation. Smvital (discussSmvital) 16:22, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support VE easier for newbies --Alaa :)..! 10:17, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support mainly because selecting the right tools is hard at first. Cheers Scott Thomson (Faendalimas) talk 22:09, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support -- Jtneill - Talk - c 10:56, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support Attracting new users would be a good result of switching to the visual editor --Bert Niehaus (discusscontribs) 14:18, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support per others. SelfieCity (discusscontribs) 20:45, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support Just applying common sense, and I'm personally in high praise of VisualEditor despite some irritating aspects of it. Leaderboard (discusscontribs) 07:11, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Discussion Reply Tool[edit source]

There is a new discussion reply tool. It automatically indents and signs replies. See Wikiversity:Newsletters/VisualEditor#Editing news 2020 #1 – Discussion tools for more information. If we want it enabled on Wikiversity, we need to request it. Please discuss and vote.

Discussion[edit source]

  • CC User:Whatamidoing (WMF) --DannyS712 (discusscontribs) 21:39, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
  • I filed phab:T249785 to enable it here; I've stalled that task until this discussion is officially closed --DannyS712 (discusscontribs) 01:17, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • How would the average contributor revert vandalism or an admin do revision delete on these talk pages? --mikeu talk 18:53, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
    • You can test the user interface at [1]. The reply tool only engages when you click on Reply. Everything else appears to be standard (Edit, etc.). -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 19:41, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Given that there hasn't been any input in a while, and no opposition, unstalling and moving to deploy the change (i.e. active the tool) --DannyS712 (discusscontribs) 21:20, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
    Update: it is not being deployed to new wikis for now --DannyS712 (discusscontribs) 06:53, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
    I've got the English Wikiversity on my "short list". I still don't know when the next group will be officially chosen, but I will recommend you for the next group. Whatamidoing (WMF) (discusscontribs) 22:44, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
  • This feature can be enabled by adding if ( $( '#ca-addsection' ).length ) mw.loader.using( 'ext.discussionTools.init' ); to the common.js file (on all wikis: global.js). —Hasley talk 20:35, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Voting[edit source]

  • Support enabling as a beta feature. I've tried it out a bit, and it would be helpful to have, even while its still being developed --DannyS712 (discusscontribs) 21:39, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Support, easy and user-friendly. Looks better than Structured Discussions extension. See mw:Talk pages project/replying#What did we find?. —Hasley talk 21:40, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Weak support I've never had a problem with talk pages (at least since the introduction of {{ping}}) but it seems like others want it so if nothing else, I'm willing to support the fact that others want to opt-in. —Justin (koavf)TCM 22:28, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Support For sure! —Atcovi (Talk - Contribs) 00:53, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
  • Support The reported tests seem promising. I'd be keen to see it implemented here, even if we reassess in 12 months based on how it affects new users. T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)talk 09:58, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Support --Alaa :)..! 10:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Support --Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 05:10, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Support wpuld be useful on any wiki. Serial Number 54129 (discusscontribs) 12:24, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support enabling as beta feature and it is good to have source editing still available on discussion pages. --Bert Niehaus (discusscontribs) 12:49, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Community open letter on renaming[edit source]

On August 2020, the Wikimedia Foundation board of trustees may decide to rename to "Wikipedia Foundation". See meta:Wikimedia Foundation Board noticeboard/Board Update on Branding for details. There is an open letter asking the Wikimedia Foundation to pause or stop this effort. See meta:Community open letter on renaming. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 20:54, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Dave Braunschweig Did I accidentally delete this post by you? See --Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 15:17, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
@Guy vandegrift: It's pretty easy to accidentally hit the revert link. I did it to Mu301 once. There is an option under Preferences where you can "Show a confirmation prompt when clicking on a rollback link". It is off by default. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 18:08, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
Thanks-I changed the default.--Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 18:27, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Feedback on movement names[edit source]

Hello. Apologies if you are not reading this message in your native language. Please help translate to your language if necessary. Thank you!

There are a lot of conversations happening about the future of our movement names. We hope that you are part of these discussions and that your community is represented.

Since 16 June, the Foundation Brand Team has been running a survey in 7 languages about 3 naming options. There are also community members sharing concerns about renaming in a Community Open Letter.

Our goal in this call for feedback is to hear from across the community, so we encourage you to participate in the survey, the open letter, or both. The survey will go through 7 July in all timezones. Input from the survey and discussions will be analyzed and published on Meta-Wiki.

Thanks for thinking about the future of the movement, --The Brand Project team, 19:52, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Note: The survey is conducted via a third-party service, which may subject it to additional terms. For more information on privacy and data-handling, see the survey privacy statement.

I signed the letter and made a comment at Wikivoyage. Thanks to those who took the time to write this letter and sign it. SelfieCity (discusscontribs) 14:17, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Announcing a new wiki project! Welcome, Abstract Wikipedia[edit source]

Sent by m:User:Elitre (WMF) 20:13, 9 July 2020 (UTC) - m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia/July 2020 announcement

Acting[edit source]

What subjects do I need for acting? What age can you start acting?

-- (discuss) 20:59, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Your IP address is from South Africa. University of Cape Town seems to be the highest rated college there. See [2] for a list of performing arts degrees and requirements. In my experience, age is less of an issue in acting than connections or opportunities are. The fewer connections you have, the more education you'll need to make up the difference. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 00:56, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Human behaviour[edit source]

--2402:3A80:B71:3D40:0:47:C6B9:F701 (discuss) 21:16, 2 August 2020 (UTC)hello,my name is Vishal singh,I am from India. My question is,I see many peoples who describes human behaviour in different ways sometimes it's very irritating.the most common thing is when a youngster searching for motive but they confused and frustrated much during in unemployment they doubt himself.i was searching many years before the YouTube is worst thing who distracted people's in the name sacred phycology of human behaviour is compared to how to impress girl or how to read minds I knew that is just money earnings methods of fullish people's.but the main question is if I say where the roots grown from the minds,how a mind of a human agreed to existence of those things like vision or dreams if they are so how you believe them they are true.

Technical Wishes: FileExporter and FileImporter become default features on all Wikis[edit source]

Max Klemm (WMDE) 09:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

CC by 4.0 for uploaded files[edit source]

Not sure if something has changed, but in uploading files recently, I noticed there was no CC by 4.0 option in the upload form - only CC by SA and GFDL. Looks like some previous discussion here: Wikiversity:Colloquium/archives/September_2018#CC-BY_4.0_as_default_license_in_upload_forms. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 11:53, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

@Jtneill: It looks like CC-BY 3.0 was removed in January 2018. I've added CC-BY 4.0 to MediaWiki:Licenses. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 14:25, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
@Dave Braunschweig: You're amazing - what would we do without you? -- Jtneill - Talk - c 23:27, 6 August 2020 (UTC)