Template talk:Welcome

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Old welcome[edit]

See also: Template talk:Welcome/old. --JWSchmidt 03:21, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't see the point of a duplicate sandbox unless and until there are two divergent ideas of how to sandbox this template. {{delete}} number 2. Cormaggio talk 13:46, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Simplifying and focusing[edit]

I like the initiative to get rid of the html for now, and focus on the links. Once we have an acceptable number of links, then we can perhaps work on a nice formatting (and I would again advocate keeping it basic, and avoid the mountain of code that currently gets added to people's talk pages.

It firstly seems to me that linking to Cite sources Wikiversity:Verifiability, NPOV and Wikiversity:Scholarly ethics is slight overkill - perhaps linking to one of these would be enough, and then place this page (perhaps Scholarly ethics?) within a context of a few other key policies. I think "research guidelines" is unnecesary - unless the person shows an interest in research, and this can be added later. Wikiversity:Help desk is repeated twice (and replicated in Wikiversity:Questions, and should really be linked from the Colloquium). I then think that the headings could be removed or reduced - for example, I've never liked the labelling of the Colloquium as "getting technical", as the Colloquium should be a place anyone can ask questions or make comments about Wikiversity - from the absolute newbie to the "veteran" (if anyone can be so named).

The main thing this is missing is a way for people to understand learning in Wikiversity, and how to use Wikiversity for their own learning. Portal:Education/Wikiversity model is a good start (if a bit wordy) - perhaps we can make a user-friendly introduction to "learning by doing"? We also don't have a link to Wikiversity:Browse - this could be useful. What else could be useful? What does a newbie need to get up to speed with Wikiversity as quickly as they can? Cormaggio talk 22:14, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

  • There are different kinds of "newbies" and the Main Page should provide them with links to what they need. We should not be using the welcome template to provide what the Main Page should provide. I have been working towards a small set of "newbie tracks":
  1. new to wiki
  2. experienced with wiki but new to Wikiversity
  3. browse track
  4. track for teachers who want to use Wikiversity to host a classroom project
  5. "heavy duty" content development track

If we had a Main Page that provided newbies with what they need then the welcome template could really become a welcome template rather than a repair kit for the failings of the main page. --JWSchmidt 01:03, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Good points. :-) A welcome template should not be making up for the Main Page's deficiencies, but have an emphasis on enculturation within Wikiversity, ie becoming part of the community and being motivated to explore and/or participate. However, I think it will still need to include some basic info on navigating and editing - which can be ignored if the user is already wiki-literate. Cormaggio talk 10:11, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Is it assumed that a registered user knows how to browse and to obtain information? On wikipedia one can get away with entering almost any word into the search box and it would work. Not so here. I added "navigation".Hillgentleman|Talk

What are the essentials?[edit]

I think the trick here is to go for something simple and direct, and not overwhelm the newcomer too much. Some ideas:

  • A welcome message should come across as sincere, warm, and friendly.
  • A welcome message should provide links for newcomers to help themselves easily, and have access to help easily
  • A welcome message should be nurturing - it should encourage participation in, and generation of content
  • A welcome message should be short - it is not supposed to express all the nuances that a Wiki should have
  • ... --HappyCamper 03:13, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
I heartily second all of that. :-) Cormaggio talk 09:00, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Taking shape[edit]

OK, I think this new welcome template is taking shape. Comments? Suggestions? --HappyCamper 02:04, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

It's looking good! I wonder if there should be a link to Wikiversity:Introduction? I also wonder why we are telling people they can "ask the support staff", when it's more of a distributed task (cf. Wikiversity:Questions, as linked below). I also think there should be more clear emphasis or guidance on how to get involved - I'm trying to think of a good single link for that... (does it exist?) Cormaggio talk 19:42, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
What if we just replaced that "ask the support staff line" with the "where to ask questions" links? Take a look...hmm...I just tried using the template. I think it's good, but something feels missing from it still. --HappyCamper 00:53, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I've made one or two changes. I think what's missing is a single page which details how to get involved - this page should explian all of the ways that people can add to existing pages, upload their own work, and use Wikiversity to learn collaboratively. I made a start on the first parts of this at Wikiversity:Adding content, but I think one single page (or perhaps tutorial) on getting involved would be better. Cormaggio talk 20:59, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I like that change re: policies - very, very nice! Other than that getting involved page, do you think this is ready for use? --HappyCamper 00:00, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
I think it's pretty much ready, but could be significantly improved by developing the getting involved page, and of course some better main page design.. :-) Cormaggio talk 16:12, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Will this have the table formatting similar to {{welcome}}? I like the simplification. Nice work! -- CQ 16:53, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
I kinda prefer the simplified structure - it certainly cuts down on that sea of code that people are currently faced with when they go to edit their talk page after the welcome template has been added... Cormaggio talk 16:59, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Let's experiment. I split the bullets into 2 columns. How does it look? If it looks ready for use, I think the next project to work on is the main page. Maybe we should point out the links to the left, and encourage people to click on them. --HappyCamper 17:05, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I reckon we should implement this as the default welcome message, and then tweak it and other related pages as we go. Thanks for all the work - especially HappyCamper! Cormaggio talk 21:43, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm using this template sporadically. I'd like to add colors to it, but perhaps simple is best. I think I might move on to the main page. --HappyCamper 18:11, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Got one on my user discussion page[edit]

I got something like this put on my user discussion page and I'm here to tell you it is IMPRESSIVE. Boy did I feel welcome! Thanks so much.Harriska2 22:14, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Me too. I've seen the old one on the pages of other users & I'm glad I got the new one instead—short & sweet ... and best of all, looks as if someone might just have written it. Nice work. Jimp 02:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

template problem[edit]

The code for having this template include the message, "This welcome message was added by placing {{subst:welcome}} on the user page." was creating a problem. It was generating "WARNING: template loop detected" and adding "on the user page. -->" to the talk page when used by substitution. I fixed the problem, but my fix is a hack. --JWSchmidt 18:47, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm a little surprised this loop thing happens - anyway, I've reverted the changes. I think I might file a bug report. --HappyCamper 19:32, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
  • The template expansion does take place during substitution even if you put < ! -- ---> around it. The same is true for the < p r e> < / p r e> tags. If you really want to write {{subst:welcome}} on a page, you would need something like template:subst to get it correct, eg with the wikitext {{subst:subst}}welcome{{subst:rightbraces}}. Anyhow, I have removed the comment, because, if the user understands it, she doesn't really need much of the welcome message.Hillgentleman|Talk 19:41, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
This peculiarity or feature of the mediawiki has gone with the old preprocessor. Hillgentleman|Talk 01:02, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

the basics[edit]

The basic wiki-mark-up's are == ==, [[]], '' '' and indentations *,:,#. I propose that the welcome template include at least one of each. Put the first line (greeting) in the section header. Hillgentleman|Talk 00:46, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Smiley[edit]

I've got mixed feelings about the new box / smiley. Perhaps we could have a parameter to switch smiley on/off? -- Jtneill - Talk 02:10, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I find the smiley + box a change to the normal wiki-style (or I just got used too much to it) - brings new colorful life wiki-life. Well, what a newcomer thinks about it we should also find out. Let's make a survey :-) Why not also make a copy from the old one also for usage - and perhaps make it dependent on a random function and when using the template we also get a surprise each time which of it gets selected :-)
btw: what are the mixed feelings about ? ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 20:18, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
  • I kept the version before McCormack at template:welcome/plain.
  • Jtneill, Yes, it can be done. At the appropriate place, replace the relevant wikidcode for the smiley and the frame by: {{subst:#ifeq:{{{smiley|}}}|off|<!--nothing-->|the wikicode for the smiley and the frame|}}.
  • Erkan, Yes, it can be done. Instead of the above, use something like {{subst:#ifeq:{{subst:#expr:{{SUBST:CURRENTTIMESTAMP}} mod 2}}|0|<!--nothing-->|wikicode for the smiley}}
  • Each is good in its own way. Personally, I believe that the welcome message itself is often the first example for new-comers, wherefrom they learn their first set of wiki-syntax rules. Therefore I favour simplicity. It also partly explains why we had the three fundamental markups== ==, [[]], * appearing in the welcome message. Hillgentleman|Talk 21:14, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Good arguments and tips. Perhaps in the new (and perhaps more complex appearing wiki syntax for a newcomer) welcome msg there could be made invisible comments which can help the newcomer when viewing the source code to adapt it ? ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 21:30, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
A little bit perhaps. The template is just a wikified welcome message; it can be a good first example (for a good wiki-style) but it shouldn't be a wikitext tutorial - that could be more confusing. Hillgentleman|Talk 21:47, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Just reading User:Jtneill's comment about the smiley. Yes - it is rather big and bold, isn't it? I increased the icon size until I was scared, and then added a bit more for good measure. Most newcomers never stay at WV for long, disappearing within a few hours for good. So my thinking was "seek attention", however much it scares you. But sure, lots of different versions to suit everyone's tastes. How about a version which changes colour every day? --McCormack 03:41, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
We could boost the shock value by having the Welcome messages signed randomly by one of the users in Mascot contest. -- Jtneill - Talk 03:58, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Eyes right. --McCormack 04:06, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
McCormack's favourite.
Maybe if interested we can play with Template:Random mascot. -- Jtneill - Talk 04:16, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Nice, I wish I would have welcomed like this back then :-) ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 15:48, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

mentioning the sandbox[edit]

Notice that the sandbox is linked from the very top of help:editing, which was linked from the very first bullet (take a guided tour and learn to edit) in the welcoming message. The direct link to the sandbox may be useful, but it may not be useful enough (experienced editors know it already; newcomers may not know how to edit at all, and had better follow the advice and go to help:editing). Hillgentleman|Talk 04:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to remove the Sandbox link. I just got the feeling that some of the unwanted page creations are good faith edits by newcomers looking for somewhere to play. The Sandbox isn't really that user-friendly... So, what about a direct link to something like edit my user page? -- Jtneill - Talk 04:33, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Updates[edit]

I updated this a bit today. --McCormack 15:43, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Signature Icon[edit]

Please changing the signature icon with new version. Namely: replace with .--Mehdi 09:52, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for catching that. --HappyCamper 20:21, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
Can you change the file as [[File:Insert-signature.png]] to [[File:Insert-signature.png|alt=|link=]] as it is in most Wikipedia templates. --Extra999 05:55, 9 February 2012 (UTC)