School talk:Music and Dance

This is the Talk page for discussing the Music and Dance school
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I made significant changes to this page. Please restore it. --Fang Aili ^talk 19:45, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Done. -- sebmol ^? 19:53, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Foundation of the school of Music and dance

August 15, 2006

Logo

Just wondering what the general consensus was about the banner logo that was over in the Wikibooks domain. My guess is that it hasn't because images were not included in the move. I'm wondering what the consensus is about the logo. Jechasteen 09:24, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Keep the logo at least for now. --Hd.G 20:04, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Use new logo. I like the logo.

Proposed Change to Courses

What would people think of combining the Musicology and History curricula into one? It seems like both musicology and history contain topics pertaining to the historical aspects of music. Jechasteen 09:30, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree, however, more simply, why don't we just delete history. Pianist 18:37, 29th August 2006

I disagree with Pianist - Histroy to me seems more bare facts, dates and events and such, and Musicology more cultural and meaningful. alikona 23:09, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I disagree with Alisone. The study of music and cultures would be "Ethnomusicology." You can reference the wiktionary article here: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnomusicology). Music History and Musicology are synonymous, as they are both the scholarly study of music and the history of music. I think that all history courses should be divided into two categories, Western and non-Western. In general, Western courses would fall under Musicology, and likewise the non-Western courses would fall under Ethnomusicology. This was the curriculum at the school where I received my undergrad, and the design was very intelligent and practical. Just a thought. :o) --Richums 14:36, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't know much about the subject, but I would also tend to see "musicology" as incorporating "history of music" - and a chronology of music could comprise a part of this. However, I find "ethnomusicology" a problematic term, as it is inherently "western"-centric, and I don't see how splitting up music into a dichotomous "western" and "non-western" is any more logical than any other split. How about simply having an organiser page, Topic:Musicology, that can split into the study of various musical genres/traditions by various criteria or levels of focus? Terms that are ambiguous, like ethnomusicology, could either be redirects to other more interdisciplinary pages, or have their own pages which would explore the term, why it exists, and why some think it is problematic. Thoughts? Cormaggio ^talk 14:54, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I see your point on the split (Western and non-Western). I suppose for a global resource, that would not be the most effective way of doing it. Sometimes I forget just how big the Internet is. :o) As far as enthomusicology goes, however, I have to disagree with you. Ethnomusicology is a field that exists all over the world. Think of it this way: "the study of people making music." It is not confined to any particular geographic region, nor is it bound by western ideals or thought - It truly is universal. Here is a good resource: (http://www.lib.washington.edu/music/world.html). I definitely think that Musicology and Ethnomusicology could be two separate subject areas, however for organization's sake, I agree that Ethnomusicology could fall under Musicology in a hierarchy. So your idea on the organizer page Topic:Musicology is a good idea. Richums 15:50, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I love that comment about the size of the internet. :-) And just to "translate" your point into possible structure, Topic:Ethnomusicology could be a subsection of Topic:Musicology... Cormaggio ^talk 17:14, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Portal:Music

Portal:Music was imported from Wikibooks. It has the author history of the original School of Music page. Please coordinate Portal:Music with School:Music. --JWSchmidt 00:34, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

There are tons of subpages there, you guys would do well to get them coordinated with School:Music.--digital_me 17:17, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Departments etc.

Quick idea based on the wikibooks idea:

Creation of the following departments:

Performance (see note below) Theory and Composition Musicology Jazz Studies

These would have the obvious subject areas in their remit. Also we would need to appoint 'deans' to each of these departments. However, for performance, due to the large number of different instruments, having a dean for the department, then individual teachers or lecturers for each instrument.

I think it would be best if we delayed the appointment of the 'head' till we have a better experience as to who is good at dong what. --Pianist 18:56, 29th August 2006

On second thoughts, forget having a structure. I think it would be better if things were open for contributions - I will be trying out various ideas on the Piano page. --Pianist

The latter approach usually works better on Wikis - the structure sort of appears spontaneously, and miraculously works. --HappyCamper 22:17, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

"need to appoint 'deans' .... then individual teachers or lecturers for each instrument" <-- Wikiversity does not have appointed "deans", "teachers" or "lecturers". Wikiversity has participants. Some participants will spend more time producing useful educational content and functioning like a teacher. Doing so does not require a title, it is just a matter of participating in the collaborative learning process. --JWSchmidt 22:28, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Sure. I get what you mean, point taken. Suggestion abandoned. --Pianist

Play music on page

Is there anyway of embedding music so that it plays in the background of a page?--Rayc 03:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC) With certain HTML tags, yes, but I'm fairly sure these HTML tags are banned in mediawiki (or cannot be used anyway e.g. body). --Draicone ^(talk) 05:30, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

and for good reason. ;o) Richums 15:52, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

see this
--JWSchmidt 16:14, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Proposal for research of Music History and Cultures

This is an idea I had a while ago that might interest some of you, I didn't really know where to start and if we could work on this, it would be great.

The idea was to make "The genealogy of music genres". The idea is to retrace every modern music genres' ansestors going as far back as posible, and i'm not talking of saying "Rock" to include Rock and Roll, Metal, Alternative, but to get in depth with the genres... Example: "Nu-Metal" (Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, Crazytown etc...) As been inspired by "Industrial Metal", "Hip-Hop", "Grunge", etc... one generation back would be the same, but for "Industrial Metal", "Hip-Hop", "Grunge", etc... And find information about the cultures and History of the Genres

This is obviously not a complete proposal, but i'm giving the idea... would anyone be interested in researching this along with me? --Halyks 17:16, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

What markers would you used to identifiy which types are related to which other types? This probably has been done somewhere, but it would be a great learning excersize anyway, and an interesting way of teaching it.--Rayc 02:48, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I thought of making it kinda like a Family Tree, Throught "Generations"... we'd have to deside a point in time and tag it's most recently "created" musical genres as "Generation 0" and put everything back as "Generation -1", "Generation -2" and everything that will come later as "generation 1", "generation 2" etc... A quick idea for Generation 0 could be Janurary 1st 2007. Something similar has been made by a man called Sam Dunn for his DVD documentary Metal: A Headbanger's Journey the Genealogy of Heavy Metal is avalible on the Bonus Disk of the documentary but it only covers the genres derived from "Early Metal" (Witch includes bands like Black Sabbath) to New Wave of American Metal (Most of the 2000s Metal bands) and his family tree is really confusing. I'd like to make it for every genres that exists (lots of work to do).-- Halyks 16:14, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

• Do you mean ethnomusicology? --CharlieHuang 10:09, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
  • No, I mean the subcultures that music created... not the cultures that makes the music... although it would be a good idea to do both... --Halyks 16:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd just be bold, and start making a page somewhere. We can move pages around on Wikiversity, so if the idea seems to fit somewhere else, we can fix things easily. --HappyCamper 03:37, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Audio clips

This school seems to be attracting a lot of edits from established and IP users, which is quite nice. I wonder if we should consider looking at how to make audio clips? --HappyCamper 03:39, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Images?

Would it make sense to add a few relevant images to the school / portal page? I uploaded Image:Clair de lune.jpg recently and was hoping it could be useful. (It is public domain) --Draicone ^(talk) 05:31, 5 October 2006 (UTC) That would make more sense. I have no idea how to get a picture in to Wikiversity, but, I will try to find out. --Unionhawk 20:29, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Music History

I've left a note on the School page, but I'd like to suggest that you notify the History School of any History courses you offer here, so that they may work together with you, or, if nothing else, list these classes in the School of History, as well. Thanks! The Jade Knight 06:39, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Great idea! This would open up a lot of overlapping topics which would draw people to both departments. Richums 15:54, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Tabla

Hi there, I'm only just a new learner of Tabla, but I notice there's sweet noting for resources for the learner on the web (mainly sites advertising gurus). Since I have a Guru and I don't want to buy more or move, I figured there might be others looking for a learning project??--Dnjkirk 07:38, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Double Bass

The double bass suffers from an identity crisis. Possible names include (but are not limited to): string bass, contrabass, upright bass, bass viol, double bass, bull fiddle, or just plain old "bass." But the generally accepted proper English term for most conservatories is "Double Bass." I suggest changing the bass entry and landing page to be "double bass," and creating a separate one for "bass guitar" to include it's fretted and most-often electric cousin if we feel that this is needed. The two instruments are really different, despite the tuning and range similarities, and it might be best to keep things focused and separated. Sanbeiji 20:09, 23 October 2006 (UTC)sanbeiji

Interdisciplinary course

I've created a course on the History of Ireland through Song. Feel free to mention it here. The Jade Knight 04:03, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

splitting music and dance

Perhaps music and dance are simply expressions originating from the human capability of recognizing and creating Melody. Both of these schools could be in the criteria for "The School of Melodic Expression". It is a distillation of complicated matters, simplifying them into the core essence of their origination, which is the facultys of human intelligence. (ie.. Music and Dance are expressions of Human Melodic capabilities and Creation. )

Kind Regards, Feed back welcomed
Gaon Yincang Abhinava 15:24, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

7/22/2011 10:11am limitsaremirages@yahoo.com

doing google searches on "school of dance" and "school of music" each display what seems to be rather distinct results. perhaps the schools should be split into two different schools, "School:Dance" and "School:Music"(currently redirect), respectively. --Remi 09:01, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I very much agree! --BigBear 18:15, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

I also agree; from my side of the divide (music), there is plenty of material - if only some of us would write it ;) - to make a School of Music itself. Although knowing the dances, especially the Baroque ones, are necessary for proper realisation of tempos, this link is similar to the one between music and history (although less so, I think?). I'll stick a 'split' template on the school. Besides, I think that most of the material here is music-related anyway! Gaidheal1 21:40, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Comment. Split. I tend to support split on the basis that music is more amenable to online instruction. Admittedly there are hands on aspects of experiential learning which one cannot grasp sitting in front of a monitor, but IMO the dynamics are waaay different in terms of how the content, material or modality (music/dance) interacts with the medium of online cyber-learning collaboration. Probably the music material will grow at a much faster rate. Also, School of Music and Dance, in the form of American English I am accustomed to, has a specific connotation which is not consistent with a School of Music, particularly the kind of gritty, down home music associated with folk, traditional and country. Dance is implicitly there and will be part of cirriculum insofar as it is integral to the essence of music, but as far as a naming convention, it's a No-Go from the git go. Four of us are in agreement, with no dissenters who have spoken to this point. I would like this thread to close and move to implementation sooner rather than later, thanks. GeoBard^Rap 00:03, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• Split. I absolutely support splitting this school to Music and to Dance. I'm seeing a number of other clunky "schools" and "school subjects" in the Wikiversity:Browse area (e.g., why is Music in "Content by school subject", but not itself a "School". I think Wikiversity needs a major overhaul in organizing the content found here. -- Thekohser 14:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

• What about renaming it to School:Performing Arts? "Performing arts include the dance, music, opera, drama, magic, Spoken word, circus arts and musicals". -- darklama  14:59, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

  I disagree with this point of view. Musical composition is not a performing art (and if it is, someone should notify funding institutions). El erno (talk) 17:47, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Being a professional musician, I also share the opinion that music and dance should be separate schools. While there are a lot of aspects where these two disciplines intersect -tempi of dances as [[user:Gaidheal1|Gaidheal1] point out being a good example- We do look at these intersections from different points of view. An example of this is how we structure time.El erno (talk) 17:47, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Fiddle and Violin

I have restored the link to "Fiddle", as this links to a resource page. Please see Fiddle or Violin. Perhaps it would be helpful to discuss such removals before simply making them, thanks.Leutha 23:35, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Because I believe the term 'fiddle' to relate more to a particular playing style than to a physical instrument, I removed it from what I perceived to be a list of physical instruments (apart from the voice parts, but they should be included anyway). Instead of just removing the link I could have put it somewhere else, but anyway. I admit that I come from a classical background and that therefore I am more likely to call it a violin, but I'm willing to hear you arguments for why 'fiddle' shouldn't appear in a sub-section entitled 'folk music and playing styles' (for example)! I look forward to working on the Music school with you! Gaidheal1 19:38, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I have no idea what is going on here but at first glance this looks like something to be handled with (1) multiple entries and (2) intermediary disambiguation. Remember fiddle is fiddle and violin is violin; both words do apply to physical instruments (variably defined) and to type of music (fiddle tunes, violin solos) as well in some instances to other categories...GeoBard^Rap 22:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Deleting mispelled redlinks from mainspace.

I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings or antagonize anyone in the School however the mainspace was cluttered with a lot of red links which were not even properly spelled. The most recent one was as follows:

• Composition department (doesn't yet exist, but should be seperate from theory)

The word is spelled separate. I very seldom revert or delete anything, in many years on WMF, but in this case feel it is necessary for the good of the project. Thank you for your kind understanding.GeoBard^Rap 02:55, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Neither Schoo: Music nor School:Music and Dance populate

Neither populates the listings page for School wonder what is up with that.GeoBard^Rap 22:40, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Searching musicians

Hi,

I'm a regular contributor of the french version of Wikiversity. Since a few months, I try to write some music lessons, especially for jazz improvisation : https://fr.wikiversity.org/wiki/D%C3%A9partement:Jazz

I would like to know if there is here musicians who are interested in the same way and I hope to begin a collaboration with some others jazz-players, ideas exchange, bit of scores, tips, etc.

You can answer here or on my own page of discussion : https://fr.wikiversity.org/wiki/Discussion_utilisateur:Thierry613

Thanks a lot.

--Thierry613 (discuss • contribs) 22:06, 1 March 2015 (UTC)Thierry

PS Please excuse me for my poor english...

Dance department : top editors

09 III 16

• Topic:Dance
• en.wikiversity.org
• Total des révisions: 13
• Nombre de rédacteurs: 7
• 2016-03-09 22:19:42

¹ Nombre de modifications
² Durée moyenne entre les modifications

Nom d’utilisateur	#1	Mineur	%	Première contribution	Dernière contribution	atbe2	Ajouté (Bytes)
Thierry613	5	3	60	2015-03-06, 00:26	2016-03-09, 19:33	74	432
Gaidheal1	2	2	100	2011-06-10, 19:57	2011-06-10, 19:58	0	19
Thenub314	2	0	0	2010-06-28, 14:46	2010-06-28, 14:47	0	75
Dave Braunschweig	1	1	100	2015-03-07, 03:00	2015-03-07, 03:00	0	0
Wifsy	1	1	100	2013-02-24, 22:45	2013-02-24, 22:45	0	0
HenkvD	1	1	100	2009-03-07, 12:19	2009-03-07, 12:19	0	5
Mats	1	0	0	2008-10-05, 08:08	2008-10-05, 08:08	0	802

Sorry, I didn't succeed to get the table in english... --Thierry613 (discuss • contribs) 16:55, 18 March 2016 (UTC)