Wikiversity:Colloquium/archives/July 2021

About the tabs accessible on "View History", on each ressource

Hello. On fr.wikiversity, on each resource, when one clicks on "View History", there is access, not only to "Search - Statistics - Revisions - Page Views", but also to "Number of contributors who follow this page". If I can't see this tab on en.wikiversity, is it because my IP is abroad (in France), or is it (as I think so) because it would take too much work for the wiki engine? Thanks for your answer. Sincerely, Claude Mariotti (discuss • contribs) 07:38, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

@EclairEnZ: Number of page watchers is available under the Page information link on the left of each page. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 18:34, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

@Dave Braunschweig: Wow! Never, never, I would have thought that this link could exist. And then, we ask, without believing, and the miracle happens. I'm telling you and believe me, all you good people, if you were looking for a magician, don't look anymore Thanks, Dave. Claude Mariotti (discuss • contribs) 22:47, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

WikiAsk

I ran across WikiAsk proposal recently. Some people oppose it with argument that the content fits in Wikiversity scope. So my question is, does Q&A, in the sense of a large shared FAQ, fit in Wikiversity scope? Does any subset of Q&A, e.g. short HOWTOs, fit in Wikiversity scope? Existing Q&A sites like StackOverflow function as a sort of collaborative learning community that produces a resource with educational value as its byproduct, so Q&A is within scope at a very abstract level. It is however my understanding that Wikiversity, like Wikibooks, focuses on linear content that is expected to be consumed sequentially from start to end. Q&A is an obvious reference resource. Absence of any Q&A repository within Wikiversity makes me think this must have been rejected in the past or that Q&A is such a poor fit that nobody even attempted it. — Robert Važan (discuss • contribs) 03:29, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

@Robert Važan: Q&A learning projects are supported by the Wikiversity:Mission. There have been a variety of Q&A learning projects at Wikiversity over the years. Try a search for "help desk" for some examples. There have been others targeting junior high and high school audiences as well, but I don't recall the page titles at the moment. Many have since been removed as lacking content (empty placeholders that didn't engage participants). The problem with Q&A is that it requires experts in the topic dedicated to monitoring questions and responding to them, and likely other volunteers to manage the overall content organization to make questions and answers easy to find, merge duplicates, etc. If you'd like to start one or more Q&A learning projects at Wikiversity, please do so. If nothing else, you can use Wikiversity to build and demonstrate the concept. If the model is successful, we can add a link to the home page to draw additional viewers (such as the WikiJournal already enjoys). Let us know whenever you have any questions. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 15:50, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

@Dave Braunschweig: I've seen Wikiversity:Help desk, but that's not what I mean by Q&A. WikiAsk proposal is a bit confused in its details and needs some discussion and fine-tuning, but the basic idea is to have one page per question and to have a very large number of such pages (possibly millions). These question pages eventually become the primary source of traffic on the Q&A site. The ongoing influx of readers brings in editors who update the question pages with new information. Discussion threads like this one or the ones on Wikiversity:Help desk are a different kind of resource that lacks the structure and focused writing needed to rank in search engines. Discussion pages are consequently used mostly interactively and archive search plays a minor role. Given this clarification, does Q&A belong in Wikiversity? Wikiversity:Mission talks about "learning materials/resources", but what exactly is a learning material? Individual question pages inherently meet only 3 out of 10 criteria for learning material defined in Wikiversity:Being educational (specifically criteria 1, 5, and 7) and some questions may also meet 3 additional criteria (3, 4, and 10) depending on how they are written. It's a borderline case. — Robert Važan (discuss • contribs) 21:26, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

@Dave Braunschweig: PS: Then there's the issue of unanswered questions. Q&A sites generally leave unanswered questions around forever. It is not uncommon for people to add an answer months or even years later. Would Wikiversity tolerate pages that merely state a question without providing any answers? — Robert Važan (discuss • contribs) 21:36, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

@Robert Važan: I didn't reference Wikiversity:Help desk. I was hoping you would search for help desk pages generically. Such a search yields pages including:

• School of Mathematics Help Desk
• Engineering Help Desk
• English Language Reference Desk
• Wikiversity computer skills/Help desk
• Learning Java/Help
• Java Programming/Help
• Pascal Programming/Help

It would certainly be possible to have a learning project or projects with one subpage per question. Whether or not there is demand for millions of such pages remains to be seen, but the concept certainly overlaps with Wikiversity's education mission. Whether or not there is demand for a separate wiki project also remains to be seen. Wikiversity started as part of Wikibooks and then split off 15+ years ago as it became clear they should be separate projects. WikiJournal is interested in splitting off, but is building their portfolio while and until such time as a split is approved. Rather than focusing on a platform that doesn't exist, I encourage you to work within the wiki project structure already provided and build what you can here to demonstrate proof of concept, demand, etc.

Regarding Wikiversity structure, please start with a learning project that describes the Q&A approach and then use subpages for the questions and answers. There is usually plenty of leeway for subpages to have little content as long as the overall project demonstrates educational value. On the other hand, if the entire project is abandoned, after 180 days one of us would likely go through and delete unanswered questions that don't appear to add value. As the project grows, we can see the direction it takes and move pages around in the future as necessary to support the interest generated.

Since WikiJournal is using that as the start of all of their pages, and you believe that WikiAsk is the appropriate title for the wiki you want to build, perhaps starting with WikiAsk is the way to go for your project, at least for now.

Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 00:50, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Moving quality resources into subpages of quality resources.

I wrote this and this page in draft space before finding them a good "home" as subpages of Linear algebra. Then I noticed a quality page on Cramer's rule on the low-quality Matrix (mathematics) and also moved it to Linear algebra/Cramer's rule. Finally, I put the low-quality Matrix (mathematics) up for deletion. I don't usually touch pages that are not mine (despite being a Custodian), and for that reason I thought I would give everybody a heads-up.

Also, I think it improves WV's reputation if quality pages are moved to subpages of larger-scope pages that only contain quality subpages. Does everybody agree?--Guy vandegrift (discuss • contribs) 17:15, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

I appreciate your work here but I don't think this will have a big impact on the reputation of Wikiversity, to the extent that we even have one. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:02, 27 July 2021 (UTC)