Talk:Was 9/11 an inside job?

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Objection: There was no evidence of the explosives required for a controlled demolition[edit source]

Edited for content: Chemistry professor Niels Harrit of the University of Copenhagen found conclusive evidence of high energy thermitic material in five independent dust samples acquired from Ground Zero. Secondly, the government authorities did not look for the presence of explosives and neither did anybody else until Harrit. ... 9/11 is as clear cut a cover up as has ever existed. (The preceding unsigned comment was added by TheNomenclature (talkcontribs) 26 November 2019‎)

From Wikipedia: World Trade Center controlled demolition conspiracy theories:
NIST "found no corroborating evidence for alternative hypotheses suggesting that the WTC towers were brought down by controlled demolition using explosives planted prior to Sept. 11, 2001. ... Instead, photographs and videos from several angles clearly show that the collapse initiated at the fire and impact floors and that the collapse progressed from the initiating floors downward until the dust clouds obscured the view".
Wikiversity does not support conspiracy theories, and attacks on other users are not accepted. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 14:18, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

9/11 Page[edit source]

This is the most ridiculously stupid thing I have ever read. Just look at the idiots who are objecting. One of them, who simply wrote "seriously?" as a means of supposed objection, has linked two references which he CLEARLY HAS NOT EVEN READ. I can be sure of this because the first was written by Kevin Barrett, who is pro not anti truth. The user has simply viewed the misleading title (i.e. How To Debunk WTC Thermite) and posted the article on that basis. You are a bunch of idiots and I will bet good money that none of you have ever even seen the inside of a university before. (The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 9 April 2020) at [1]

Insider trading[edit source]

As I'm not a materials engineer or a skyscraper architect, technical arguments about the capacity of the buildings to withstand such attacks are difficult for me (and probably most people) to assess. The evidence of insider trading is much easier to corroborate and bears some rather interesting (horrifying) information about the people who may have known in advance. Come on people, use your heads. AP295 (discusscontribs) 21:08, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

@AP295 Thanks for your contribution! I trimmed the argument quite a bit, mainly the Jewish digression, but leaving its essence intact. Kind regards, Sophivorus (discusscontribs) 12:39, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
@Sophivorus That's actually a really important part. The problem is that these criticisms are often shut down by accusations of antisemitism. I believe this has a "watershed" effect where people either abandon the argument or are drawn/pushed toward antisemitic propaganda and internalize those perspectives. If the reader is not armed with that knowledge, they may not end up with a balanced perspective. If you insist, then I'd rather the whole thing be removed from this resource, and I'll just put it on my userpage. AP295 (discusscontribs) 14:45, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
And what you have to understand is that most of my American compatriots are just as brainwashed as North Koreans. They are victims of deliberate social-engineering. In order not to encourage actual antisemitism and to make the argument effective, they must be made aware of this social engineering tactic. I'll reiterate some of my other comments here: This does not seem to be limited to criticisms toward Zionism, but virtually every argument in favor of our national or ethnic self-interest. Illegitimate accusations of racism have a "watershed" effect where people either abandon the argument or are drawn/pushed toward bigoted/antisemitic propaganda and internalize those perspectives. People who raise such concerns may find themselves broadsided by accusations of bigotry. It is their natural tendency to seek the protection of a group, and so they may be attracted toward the many astroturf "extremist"/racist communities and the associated tropes, language and archetypes. Under such social pressures, it's very hard to maintain a well-adjusted outlook, and I believe this is entirely deliberate social engineering. Unfortunately, this social engineering has robbed my compatriots of the linguistic, cultural, and social tools and structures we need to maintain our self-determination and has bastardized an entire generation of Americans and our culture. It's a tragic thing to see ones own nation and culture in such a terrible state and I would not be able to call myself a man (much less a loyal patriot) if I were to abide this without uttering a word of protest. Worse yet, it has brought misery to hundreds of thousands if not millions of people around the globe, ruined our international reputation, and put us deeply into debt. I don't see a future for us if things continue like this. To write these criticisms off as antisemitism or bigotry while espousing social justice is a twisted mockery of justice itself, and so I believe that part needs to stay. It's not a digression, it's the bare minimum knowledge that the reader needs in order to avoid being chewed up and spat out by propagandists and bad actors. AP295 (discusscontribs) 16:54, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
By the way, I've heard that this is an active topic of debate within Israel itself, but it's virtually absent from American media and public dialog. I have nothing against Israel itself or the Jewish people, and I believe they are just as entitled to maintain their own culture and self-determination as we are. However, we must not be robbed of our own identity and freedom. AP295 (discusscontribs) 17:11, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
@AP295 Hi! May I ask you to read the Wikidebate guidelines, especially (but not only!) the section on brevity and clarity, and compare the length of your argument with other arguments? Maybe you can move the bulk of the digressions to footnotes? Also, if you reply here, please take the time to be brief! Kind regards, Sophivorus (discusscontribs) 13:12, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
This is about as short as I can make it, and it's only a single paragraph. We need not and should not reduce every debate to short quips and talking points. It's all important, and none of it is digression. We must identify the interests and motives at hand, and if you're asking me to sum up our reason for involvement in the middle east in two or three sentence, then I am afraid that is impossible. Incidentally, description length is a fascinating subject in theoretical computer science. See, that's a digression. AP295 (discusscontribs) 13:30, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for fixing the citations though. AP295 (discusscontribs) 13:33, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
And what I really want to emphasize is that there is a middle ground here. Yes, Israel has a right to exist. No, we should not put ourselves into debt to bankroll their expansionist goals or human rights violations. Is that so unreasonable? Is that a taboo? Will it lead to the next holocaust? No, and what sort of ally would take advantage of our trust and goodwill? What sort of public servant would use their knowledge of a planned attack, not to prevent it, but to short UAL, Merryl Lynch, etc. and then put us into an expensive war at taxpayers expense? What sort of person would buy the WTC, insure it and spend time with his tenants, and then watch them die a fiery death as he was (in an amazing coincidence) absent the day of the attack, and then sue for extra insurance money? Filthy, no-good animals, that's who. They are psychopaths, but I know there are many Jews who are staunchly opposed to Israel's expansionism and many good people who should not be the target of anger or bigotry. Most Americans are completely ignorant of the issue, and apparently prefer to discuss important matters of social progress like whether we should defund the police, who gets to use which bathroom, so on and so forth. It's just so stupid I can hardly believe it, and almost makes me think they get what they deserve, but they're only like this because they've been misguided, and I'm sure most of them have honest intentions. God help us. AP295 (discusscontribs) 16:15, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
Added Paul Wolfowitz. It may be useful to try and understand the mindset of these people. According to his Wikipedia page, his parents were Polish Jews. To say that Poland was not a nice place for Jews to be in the early-to-mid 1900s is an understatement. It's not hard to understand why one might have strong (dare I say, radical) Zionist motivations. I am not anti-Israel or anti-Zionist, but there's certainly a conflict of interest here. What have we (the U.S.) gained from the wars, besides debt and international resentment? It's not our fault they can't get along with their neighbors (or seemingly anyone else). AP295 (discusscontribs) 19:07, 4 June 2021 (UTC)