Wikiversity translations/7 September IRC

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This was an attempt to make sense of German terminology concerning research and literature reviews.

From IRC (Freenode) #wikiversity-en[edit]

Log file opened at: 9/5/06 12:44:20 AM [edited for readability]

SB_Johnny has joined channel #wikiversity-en

JWSchmidt: hi SB_Johnny

guillom|away is now known as guillom

SB_Johnny: Hi everyone

guillom: hi johnny

SB_Johnny: hi guillom

SB_Johnny: raining today... got any chores for me?

SB_Johnny: more translating?

guillom: not for the moment i think

guillom: unless you can translate from english to french :)

SB_Johnny actually *can* read both French and German, but he's a bit rusty.

guillom: don't mind

SB_Johnny: I might be able to go from French to English, but not English to French.

JWSchmidt: Wikiversity translations

wikiversil: http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity_translations

guillom: thanks john, i didn't know this page

guillom: great indeed

Scope of research[edit]

SB_Johnny: I'll give this a shot: http://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Scope_of_research/De#2

JWSchmidt: SB_Johnny: thanks

JWSchmidt: do you see the machine translation version

SB_Johnny: what's the destination page?

JWSchmidt: we need a good translation at Beta: "Wikiversity talk:Scope of research/En"

JWSchmidt: http://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity_talk:Scope_of_research/En

JWSchmidt: http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity_translations#machine_translation_.28not_adequate.29

SB_Johnny: oh, I see the problem. they would use "Interpretation" and "exegisis" for what we call "secondary research"

SB_Johnny: w:Exegesis

wikiversil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exegesis

JWSchmidt: "Interpretation" and "exegisis" <-- so does that mean "literature review"?

SB_Johnny: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textinterpretation

SB_Johnny: sort of. interpreting texts and drawing conclusions that are metadiscursive

SB_Johnny: "the September 4"... yup, he's German alright :)

SB_Johnny: there's not much sense translating that... it's really just a "what the fuck are you guys talking about?" entry. I'll try to explain on the talk page.

JWSchmidt: lol

SB_Johnny: Actually, I can't find entries for either primary research or secondary research on wp...

SB_Johnny: w:Original_research

wikiversil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_research

JWSchmidt: I put some references here: http://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity_talk:Scope_of_research/En#Reading

SB_Johnny: ok, now we just need someone to translate that into german :)

SB_Johnny is a one-way translator

aschoeke[edit]

aschoeke has joined channel #wikiversity-en

aschoeke: hi there

SB_Johnny: hi!

JWSchmidt: hello aschoeke

SB_Johnny: hold on, finding the page

aschoeke: got to learn for my java exam, but go ahead

SB_Johnny: (aschoeke is a german speaker)

SB_Johnny: http://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Research/En

SB_Johnny: http://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Secondary_research/En

SB_Johnny: because of this: http://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Scope_of_research/De#2

SB_Johnny: you'll see the problem :)

SB_Johnny: even just a sentence or two explaining what we mean by primary and secondary research would do... they're rather confused by our use of the terms

aschoeke: ok

SB_Johnny: thanks!

aschoeke: i"ll have a look

SB_Johnny: ok. let us know if there's any trouble. :)

aschoeke: well, in my opinion it is not that difficult

aschoeke: There is actually a term for it in german

aschoeke: but it isn't used that often ;)

JWSchmidt: if we have the German word it might be possible to cite a source

aschoeke: In Sociology you would talk of "der akademische Mittelbau" for original research. i think

aschoeke: the problem is, that it is rather far away from the original word

aschoeke: so i would suggest something like "forschung und lehre" :-/

aschoeke: as you divide the university also in reality

JWSchmidt: Primary and Secondary research in the context of social science research (in English): http://ec.hku.hk/acadgrammar/report/resProc/research.htm

aschoeke: ok

SB_Johnny: ah yes, akademische Mittelbau. Unfortunately my German is very good for reading Husserl and Hegel, but not so good for chatting :)

aschoeke: dont know

aschoeke: is a bit more complicated

SB_Johnny: I think the difference is mainly between Forschung and Textinterpretation

SB_Johnny: or maybe Untersuchungen

aschoeke: it looks like there is also a problem of empiric research and theoretical research envolved

SB_Johnny: yes, that's the kernel.

JWSchmidt: we could use a list of different types of research

SB_Johnny: Primary = empirical (with data collection)

aschoeke: JWSchmidt, wouldnt work

aschoeke: nono

aschoeke: that will not do

SB_Johnny: Secondary = based on preexisting texts

JWSchmidt: Wikiversity must decide on policy for which types of research are allowed

aschoeke: as you can not divide empirical and preexisitng

aschoeke: you need booth for primary

SB_Johnny: right

aschoeke: ok

aschoeke: how about "aufbereitende und aktive Forschung"

aschoeke: would be preparing and active research

SB_Johnny: Aber ich glaube dass das sogennante "Primary Research die sammlung des data auch impliziert

aschoeke: yes

SB_Johnny: ...weil diese sammlung im "Secondary Research" nicht impliziert.

aschoeke: so it is a question of the word "aufbereitend"

SB_Johnny: I think so, hold on

SB_Johnny: yes, I think. how the materials for the research are collected and prepared.

aschoeke: ok

aschoeke: aufbereitend is misleading

aschoeke: maybe vorbereitend ;)

aschoeke: but that is a bit far away again

aschoeke: next try: vergleichende und aktive forschung... may be that

aschoeke: ?

SB_Johnny: yeah. It's really just a difference in that secondary research doesn't involve the collection of raw data, but instead relies on the interpretation of already-written texts that have already analyzed the data

SB_Johnny: are those expressions used in German?

aschoeke: vergleichende forschung yes

aschoeke: but i dont know of a counter part

SB_Johnny: ah, that's it!

SB_Johnny: There is no counterpart. Original research is just Forschung

SB_Johnny: "Original" is simply implied.

aschoeke: yes, i think so too

SB_Johnny: cool. That makes things much easier then.

aschoeke: cool :)

SB_Johnny: Thanks so much! Would you mind dropping a note on the talk page there so they'll understand what we're trying to say?

aschoeke: ok

See also[edit]