Talk:Hitler's Germany

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Is this a calendar-specific course (ie "week one" starts on a specific date), or can people start whenever they want? If so, what would a student's options be if they were interested in starting the course now? Cormaggio 18:21, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

My understanding is that Kfitton would be fine with students starting the course "late". I recommend you email him. The Jade Knight 19:21, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with people jumping into the discussion mid-point as long as they take the time to catch up. Preferably anyone that jumps in should really try to make it to the point of writing a paper on the topic, as the discussion and analysis of that work is going to be the major feedback from me as to whether or not you would likely pass a university class on the same subject. It's also good practice for writing history papers and there are plenty of topics in this discussion to choose from. When I took the class myself, it ended up being a 15 pg paper on the Use of Social Pedagogy in the Third Reich. --Kfitton 07:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Right - thanks for clarifying (and Michael too). So, then, will this course be "over" at a certain point in the future? Cormaggio 08:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Well...for the moment, I'm not planning on continually recycling the class each time we hit 7 weeks. I want to run through one cycle and see how it looks with one complete class. If there is enough depth and information presented, then I believe others will be able to read the information and follow the discussions that have already occurred and hopefully gain something. It is by no means a complete class as in the traditional sense, rather an opportunity for learner to be guided along this train of thought so that if at some point in the future they plan on taking a university class on the subject, they will already have a familiarity and perhaps better chances at passing. --Kfitton 17:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Nod. I hope that it will be useful to more people in the future - or possibly restructured or modified to make it into a course which could be used at any time. It'll be interesting to see if/how we can recycle such a course structure - I can try and help out if possible. Cormaggio 17:13, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Nazi Revolution recommended for who?[edit]

  1. The Nazi Revolution by Allan Mitchell, 4th ed. Highly recommended!

You must be joking. This book probably reveals more about the authors and their peculiarities/fixations than it does the history of Nazi Germany. There is not a single citation in sight, yet it tries to push highly controversal "Nazi sexuality" theories, venturing into an absurd world of pseudo-scholarship. Again, did I mention there are no sources? Its take on Nazism and classism is skewed (part of the "bury the lower classes" flavor) and there isn't so much an argument as there is a narrative in most of these articles. I have this book sitting on my toilet to use as toilet paper when I run out.--72.94.90.144 05:54, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Your trolling would be much more convincing if you had an actual username instead of just an IP. But to answer your accusation, yes I am quite serious about suggesting that particular book almost for the exact reasons with which you seem to vilify it - the point that historians need to learn that there are more than one version of events out there and it is necessary to take into account multiple points of view, even if you disagree with them in order to try and construct the most accurate analysis possible. By looking at theories as presented in Mitchell, it is possible to see how widely people differ over this topic. Considering that Nazi Germany and the Holocaust are highly debated, I find that the resource has merit. --Kfitton 18:39, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I agree wth Kfitton that the tone you take is anything but analytical, and if you plan to have academic discussion here, you should register a username. That the book does not use citations, however, is (in my opinion) a very valid concern; such books can certainly be used effectively in a classroom setting, but must always be taken with a particular grain of salt—without citations, they are extraordinarily difficult to verify. The Jade Knight 20:05, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

"'The Ominous Parallels"' by Leonard Peikoff[edit]

Someone added this to the reading list and I have taken it off for a variety of reasons - the main one being that the person does not have an account (only ip was listed in the edit) and has not introduced themselves as a participant. If they want to take part, please take part in the discussion or the talk before adding things willy-nilly. --Kfitton 00:50, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, this isn't exactly welcoming of newcomers - surely, the book should be analysed on merit or interest, rather than simply having been added by an anonymous user. It could well be a participant in this course who hadn't logged in. This also goes for the comment above - I thought it was a valid critique, if a little fiery (though I have no idea if it's an appropriate response on the book itself, not having read it). Surely we can take a bit of criticism - both personally, and of our sources? You're of course free to dismiss that criticism - as is anyone. But, most importantly, let's try to encourage people to participate, rather than shun them just because they haven't revealed their identity yet.. Cormaggio 14:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I think anyone reading this page is learning that I don't like people that completely hide behind the security of the internet (using an ip only) while trying to make claims on this page. I don't discourage anyone from participating, in fact I'm a bit disappointed that discussion on the main page has died down, What discussions were had, I felt that people were gaining a real good traction on the subject. If the shadowy slipper-in of sources wants to actually take part in the discussion I'm all for it, but just putting something in the list without any background..I don't want people thinking that I've stopped looking at this page. I put more than a few hours into making sure that the information was as accurate as I could. If I wanted to be hostile, I would have just deleted the insert entirely...instead I pasted it into this page to get some discussion on it before it's a main page item. To be quite honest, while I'm not a fan of Rand and Objectivism, I would still like to hear from our shadowy figure why they chose to slip that in there. --Kfitton 23:55, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Also i would recommend reading the books as published by Albert Speer; " Spandauer Tagebucher" and other publications. I recommend them because it gives an insite from behind the scenes. One might not find it neutral, but it is highly interesting to see the view from a leading figure. Bart 21:48, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

One of the interesting things about the period in question is that there are SO many records available...someone could read years and years worth of records and still find something new each time. Without a lifetime of study, it would be nearly impossible to give a complete recount of what it was like in those days. --Kfitton 01:40, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned?[edit]

Is this project still being maintained? There has not been significant activity on it for ages. The Jade Knight 13:54, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I check it from time to time, but no one has added questions or commentary to address...so I haven't added the answers to the last questions until someone wants to attempt it. --Kfitton 20:17, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Ok. Just checking. I'm wondering if we could make instructions more clear; your introduction certainly does this to an extent, but doesn't seem to be getting through; people are signing up, but not participating. Perhaps you could consider sending a canned message to everyone that signs up? Just save it on a user subpage (like User:Kfitton/Messages) and then just copy and paste it at the talk pages of anyone who signs up. Perhaps that would encourage them to be more active? Also: your image appears to be broken. Thanks for providing this good discussion resource. FYI: Categorization of pages is now very important. I've started the process, and started a discussion at the school talk page, and you're welcome to get involved. I'll be posting more as I come along. The Jade Knight 08:01, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Opposing Viewpoints[edit]

Some pro-Nazi but more specifically sober nationalism can be found on stormfront.org forums. From a quick skim of this course, I've probably learned more from that website than I have in schools or would expect to in this class.