Talk:Should batteries in portable electronics be replaceable?

A more general question.

How can we discourage planned obsolescence in consumer goods? The problem extends beyond cell phones. Anecdotally, most consumer goods have quite a limited service life, but even more problematic is the difficulty or impossibility of servicing and repairing such appliances. They are often constructed in a manner that does not make them easy to fix. It would be interesting to discuss how the problem might be addressed with policy, both for the sake of consumer protection and environmental considerations. Ultimately, I think such policy must only apply to larger manufacturers so that it does not create a barrier to entry while still addressing the problem effectively. AP295 (discuss • contribs) 18:44, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

I don't know how a policy against planned obsolescence is supposed to create a barrier to entry. And if smaller manufacturers were still allowed to create inferior devices with planned obsolescence, who would buy from them rather than established brands?

Also, what do you consider as the threshold for a "large manufacturer"? Can you make an example? Elominius (discuss • contribs) 21:24, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

It would depend on the policy, but regulation in general tends to do so, for instance, if it involves expensive testing to ensure a product meets certain standards. Smaller businesses should be exempt because otherwise you might end up with an oligopoly as we have in so many industries. "Large" could be defined in many different ways, but I don't see this as a significant problem. AP295 (discuss • contribs)

In other words, it should be implemented in such a way that it does not allow a small set of large companies to legally enshrine their hold over the market, which they often do because they tend to have a lot of lobbying power and money to spare for kickbacks to grease the crooks in DC. We have weak antitrust policy here in the United States. It's hardly a surprising state of affairs, but we don't have to like it or condone it. AP295 (discuss • contribs)

Interesting. It could also be that small manufacturers fear accidentally infringing patents they don't even know exist. Elominius (discuss • contribs) 22:47, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean, but it's perhaps worth remembering that patents only last twenty years before they expire. AP295 (discuss • contribs)

On the other hand, a shoestring startup company or some old, small-time domestic manufacturer probably can't afford to send Thomas Clarence or whoever on a vacation to the Bahamas or pay his grand-nephew's tuition money. AP295 (discuss • contribs)

Maybe one way to write this sort of policy is to require that certain products come with long warranties that renew if the product must be replaced with a newer model before the warranty is up. This would encourage a reasonably long-lasting product that is also cheaper to repair or refurbish than to replace. I think the EU was considering some laws against planned obsolescence in certain appliances, but I don't know what they consist of. At any rate, I like this idea. AP295 (discuss • contribs)

Apologies for the late response. There were plans three years ago, but those were empty promises that were never acted upon. Elominius (discuss • contribs) 21:40, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

That's too bad. I vaguely remember seeing something different, but I don't have any reference to it. At any rate, moore's law is no longer true, so there's little reason to constantly "upgrade" one's portable electronics. Of course manufacturers know this, and making the battery hard or impossible to replace is one way to ensure a finite and relatively predictable service life. AP295 (discuss • contribs) 02:27, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Also I notice, for devices where one must frequently change the battery for practical purposes (e.g. a cordless drill), the batteries are usually encapsulated and sold in some proprietary container at a significant markup. This container is always designed so that one cannot simply open it up an replace the batteries inside it, for "safety reasons". They're always just off-the-shelf cells like the 18650 or 21700. Granted there are safety considerations, but there are also safety considerations to be observed when you use an oven, cook over a fire, drive a car and so on, and even then it's somewhat moot because all such batteries can be made with an inline fuse, and the container can also have a fuse. It's one of many exploitative and socially detrimental annoyances put upon us, small individually but also additive. AP295 (discuss • contribs) 02:54, 7 November 2023 (UTC)