Talk:Living With a Narcissist

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I believe they should stay. Chances are that those offended by the jokes know they apply to themselves. The jokes demonstrate in a very simple manner some of the complex core symptoms of narcissism. The information contained within them are science, psychology, and true. The topic of narcissism is a very complicated uncomfortable one, and the jokes not only make light of the situation, they educate as well. I think what's important in an article/book like this is that it EDUCATES, and this article does just that. Just because some narcissists are offended by the jokes doesn't mean the jokes should be taken out: one of the core symptoms of narcissism is overly-defensiveness- it would be ludicrous the remove the informative jokes just because some narcissists are defensive over their imagined criticisms from the jokes. There's plenty of information out there that can offend anyone, but just because the truth hurts doesn't mean an open-source educational tool should delete everything that offends someone. These jokes have helped me and many other victims of narcissists. Reading those jokes are enlightening and educational. Another characteristic of narcissism is a lack of humor, go figure.Flaxfaeriecrafts (discusscontribs) 19:52, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

ethics[edit source]

Certain guidlines (ACA Ethical Guidelines for example... if my memory serves me) state that even clinicians should not diagnose outside the context of treating their own patient. So to help inform people how to "determine whether someone is a narcissist" may raise questions. --Remi (talk) 07:03, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Jokes and NPOV[edit source]

Do we really need bad jokes on this page? They strike me as being somewhat inappropriate for a professional, serious book. Tempodivalse 23:56, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

I think they should be removed. They aren't funny, and don't add any value to the serious content of the book. --Fishpi (discusscontribs) 19:21, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

I like them, I understand why they were put here and just knowing that someone can find humor in the difficult situation is monumental for me as I am in a similar situation. Good job!

The narcissistic personality has been summarized in the form of jokes. Humour is a good way to understand it. Very appropriate and I am stating from experience !!

These jokes are not funny. I am all for funny examples to illuminate the subtleties of the subject, but these are simply lame. They make this whole text sound idiotic. (The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) )

Narcissism is a personality disorder. That is not something to joke about. There isn't anything on this page suggesting what sort of counseling may help a narcissist or help people who are victims of narcissistic relationships, but there are jokes? Apparently mental illness and personality disorders are funny.

Great idea to put also jokes!

I left my family 3/4. After trying to forgive all the horrible, horrible, horrible things that they have done to me. I was married for 20 years. He was, his child was, his entire family was (9 brothers & sisters), they turned MY daughter into one. My sisters, my step-father, they are ones. My Mom, she died because she stayed with one -forgiving and then being abused again - forgiving and abused again, way too early! These jokes, they ARE necessary; true; needed by those of us that need to HEAL from being subject to the abuse of living with narcissist(s). Therapy. Thank God for HUMOR! Thank God! PLEASE do not delete!

- The people with negative comments about this article clearly don't understand narcissism otherwise they wouldn't suggest removing the jokes. The jokes are brilliant and I haven't seen them elsewhere so leave them in.

Problems[edit source]

This work has already been nominated before (Wikibooks:Requests for deletion/Living With a Narcissist probably more than once). It is an extremely cleaver and funny work but fails to keep a NPOV, in fact I see it somewhat as an attack vehicle against anyone that may be seen as showing any narcissistic traits, and we all have them at some degree. It fails to distinguish pathological narcissism from narcissistic characteristics.
I was going to renominate it for deletion, probably targeting a move to Wikiversity but will try to see if anyone willing to put up some work on it will came forward by my tagging it as a NPOV violation. --Panic (discusscontribs) 03:34, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Wow, this page seems to have almost no sources. It reads like an angry divorcee. Any sense here? No? (discuss) 17:31, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

In support of this page ....[edit source]

Absolutely this page must be kept - I live with a narcissist and so much of it applies to her very accurately. Narcissism is only now coming into the public domain so there are still very few resources on it. This is one of the best resources I have come across. And as a final note the jokes are brilliant!

As an aside: Trump is doing the world a favour by showing everyone what narcissists are like.

I have recently been indirectly involved with a friend whose wife was having trouble with an ex-spouse. I made a non-professional diagnosis of the ex-spouses behavior based on the my friend's accounts of his behavior. I forwarded the couple some links on NPD ... which motivated the couple to seek the help of a family law attorney for their own legal protection.

I would be comfortable forwarding this article to that couple if they appeared not to acknowledge the potential danger of the ex-spouse. I believe this page does seem to assume that the person associated with the reader has NPD. On the other hand, I really like the section on learning how to detect and avoid people who have pathological narcissism - since ultimately this is a call that is made by the partner ... why bother debating how severe the problem is if it bothers you (Unless YOU are the narcissist ... bwa ha ha ha)?

I am supportive of keeping this page because my friend told me stories about how "weird" the ex was acting ... and asking questions like "Why would he do that?" I learned about the term NPD from a teacher's aide as a substitute. There was a kid in a class who was argumentative and controlling in class - but also actually seemed interested in the material. When I asked the aide about him she said she thought he had NPD ... I looked the term up and the next day adjusted my behavior toward the student to let him feel he was contributing to the class. I allowed him to work the first review problem, and then kept referring to his example ... I.E. "In Timmy's example we added, but now we're subtracting what should we do ... and then I called on someone else in the class." Student was quiet, and class seemed much more relaxed and engaged than the previous day.

I believe the tone of this article could be helpful for a person who is just learning about the disorder. If I was going to change anything it would be to encourage the engagement of professionals ... either psychotherapists if you believe you are involved with a person with NPD or a lawyer if your circumstances force you to associate with a person who you believe is has NPD.

Nfgdayton (discusscontribs) 18:15, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

I do not oppose the subject and see it as useful, the problems I find in it is that it seems to be all or nothing and can be seen as a manual for diagnosis or to identify narcissists, and we should acknowledge how dangerous this things are in the hands of unskilled or even abusive personalties. Because of this incomplete, generalist and single sided coverage of the problem this book permits itself to be used as weapon to attack and devalue others (more or less as you did above).
Narcissistic traits are the source of self-love/value and self-empowerment. The wikibook fails to point out that everyone has the traits found in narcissism at different levels it is only when it is pathological (akin to skizofreny) that it can become detrimental to those around the sufferer of the disorder. And there is more that a single type of narcissism.
This is not an article, it is a wikibook that aims to be a textbook (teaching material). --Panic (discusscontribs) 18:58, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

I believe the page is precisely what someone who is sufferring with a narcissist needs to hear and know - for the redemption of their own self esteem, if nothing else. I resent the attitudes many people have about witholding information on some arbitrary conclusion that people aren't smart or careful enoughh to understand and use it properly. The notion of a "neutral point of view" with reagrd to problem behavior is a fantasy. 'Problem behavior" is in the eye of the beholder and withholding information will not correct anyone's poor vision.

I certainly hope no one deletes this page. It has been very helpful to me, since I hadn't been able to locate anywhere near this much information in one location anywhere else. Any of us who are familiar with "Wiki" projects know enough to use a certain degree of common sense; after all, NPOV is just a matter of opinion on Wikipedia, anyway. So please don't change anything. (discuss) 06:17, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Definitely a must read for narcissism victims. If you have not lived with one....then you have no right objecting to the validity of this page. Johnnyblade (discusscontribs) 16:56, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Exactly what Johnnyblade said. The victims feel like we are the crazy ones. The jokes break the tension. Lady Larkin (discusscontribs) 00:18, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

This is a fantastic piece of work as I live with someone who has every single one of these traits almost word for word and it is somewhat comforting realising I am not alone. This goes way beyond the majority of articles on the subject which mainly centre around the "self obsession" aspect of the condition. The only issue this leads me to consider is is it right to combine these traits all under Narcissism?? it would be useful to get a psychologist/psychiatrists view of this.

It would also be useful to find out some ways of dealing with this both for the perpetrator and the victim.

Overall though a great piece which should be kept.

This article is great. It really helped me to understand what is going on with my wife. I consider myself a victim of NPD. People who didn't experience (or are not experiencing)the taste of being the victims of NPD shouldn't have the right of proposing deletion of any portion or whole of this page. (15:41PM May 24, 2012)

Do not delete this page! For the sake of all victims.

I agree! Keep it please!

Good book. Very accurate description of living with a narcissist - important and relevant.

I agree that there are some issues with the article in relation to referencing and terminology used. However as someone living with someone with narcissistic traits I found it very helpful. It largely resonates with everything I have read on this subject but putting it into a more accessible and less complicated language leaving out the psychological and professional jargon. There are two points I would like to make, which are based from my own experience professionally and privately: 1. From what you tell, your children's emotional health and well-being is very much at risk and you need to treat this with the same urgency as physical risk! Seek professional advice on this one, there is lots you can do. Maybe start with a Domestic Violence support agency, they often also give advice to men, and take emotional abuse just as serious as physical abuse. If necessary go further talk anonymously with a Social Worker, your GP, a Play or Child Therapist... Spend as much quality time with your children, play with them! build a strong, secure and loving relationship with them. 2. I agree with some of your advice where you say we have to accept. However we have to be extremely careful of the price we are willing to pay for a bit of peace. I have only realised that I have been living with someone who has narcissistic traits when I sought counselling. At that stage my self-esteem was rock bottom. The counselling helped me have a good look at myself and what I do in the relationship. What worked and what didn't. It made me realise that I am not responsible for the way he feels and behaves, that in fact I have absolutely no influence on it. That I was living in a vicious circle: because he was mad at me for doing something wrong, I tried to appease him and do better. the more I tried to appease him, the more he found to criticise me for... I was walking on eggshells around him because he was bad tempered, but that doesn't change anything, he was bad tempered no matter what I did! As much as I can I am now trying to emotionally detach myself from him and his feelings. I am now only looking after my own and my children's emotional well-being. I don't criticise him or provoke him in any way but I also don't appease him or go out of my way to meet his needs. I look after my self-esteem and work on becoming as independent as I possibly can. I also set myself an aim which is achieving financial independence so I can leave eventually. So far this is going well for me. Surprisingly, after a period of increased temper tantrums, he seemed to have become less volatile and more sulky--SGKN (discusscontribs) 09:53, 17 May 2016 (UTC).

Comment on Testimonial of author no. 1[edit source]

Even though you acknowledge the picture you put of your wife as been very negative, you have label her as a narcissist. First:it is obvious that she needs professional help with the event of the baby being explain in that way. I had a friend that when she was 13 had such an event of rage that with her grist broke the glass of her bedroom door to the balcony. The mother took notice and took her to the psychiatrist and found out that a part of her brain was not working properly. She had been given medicines to correct that and she stop having those events since then until now that she is in her 50s.... but the mother saw something not right and did not let it go any longer.

Your suggestion is laughable in the context of an adult narcissist. Making such a suggestion means that you don't have even the most basic understanding of narcissism. Narcissists are always in the right so they would never agree to accept professional help (its always the other people who have the problem or caused the problem). If you can come up with a way of getting a narcissist to see a professional then by all means suggest it.

Second: I would like to know what does she do? I can see that she has a job, comes and cleans the house, has to deal with all the problems of having children educating them does the cooking, probably also does the shopping, does she have a garden also and plants? What is your roll in the house apart from having a job and tell your daughter to help to clean the house. Are you one of those men that come from work (I do not know what you do, are you having to do very heavy lifting -in building houses- and come collapsing to your home or you work in an office job)come from work and sit to watch TV and let her do everything and do not move a finger to help her?

I can see that this is a case of a burned-out lady who does not tell you and seems you can not see, and she is on her nerves must of the time, so that any little contrary that gives her more work is unwelcome and cause of a turning it into a big issue: she is full of resentenment against you. Now I could be wrong, but this is just to tell you how difficult it is to label some one with a disorder without knowing all the rest. Women have a sixth sense (even though not everyone) and are very sensitive to certain behaviors, particularly of their partner even express with movements of the face or groaning of bother, or even thoughts, etc.. I also could think she could be going out with another man and have a short circuit at home, WHO KNOWS, but I do not think she has time for this!!! Also this business of quoting something that happen 23 years ago, when she went a bit to close to the football team or that after married she changed, have ever cross your mind that you were not what you seem to be? Are you the kind of man that when is married leaves all his cloths on the floor, underwear, socks, etc, or goes to the toilet and does not clean it afterwards but leaves everything for his wife to do? Or goes to make a cup of coffee and leaves all the spots of coffee everywhere even on the floor? Did you ever tape her to make sure that she trully was denying what she had said? You can see that neither you say anything about you and you just go on labeling your wife as narcissist, I am sorry but I do not agree with this. (The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) )