Cicero/Quotes from Cicero's de Divinatione

Much in the spirit of Socrates, Cicero was an early and unsuccessful critic of the deep and bizarre superstition of his time. In the dialogue, Marcus is Cicero, Quintus his only brother.

The Latin quotes, nearly all of which are complete sentences, are selected for interest (int), language (lan), and beauty (bea), and are translated into English. The line numbers are from the Loeb edition, and start counting from line 1 of the section. All translations are the original work of Gus Wiseman (Nafindix), with the exception of any contributions from other users. The public domain sources of the Latin quotes are:

• Loeb Classical Library, Harvard University Press, vol. XX, 1923; Latin text with facing English translation by William Armistead Falconer.
• M. Tullius Cicero, De Divinatione, http://data.perseus.org/citations/urn:cts:latinLit:phi0474.phi053.perseus-lat2:1

Book 1

1.1.1.1 int/bea

"Vetus opinio est iam usque ab heroicis ducta temporibus, eaque et populi Romani et omnium gentium firmata consensu, versari quandam inter homines divinationem, quam Graeci μαντικήν appellant, id est praesensionem et scientiam rerum futurarum."

The understanding that among men exists a certain divination, which the Greek call mantike (prophecy and prediction of things yet to be) is old, indeed all the way from the times of the heroes, and has the hardened support of the Roman people and all nations.

1.3.5.3 int/bea

"Philosophorum vero exquisita quaedam argumenta, cur esset vera divinatio, collecta sunt."

Certain sought-after arguments why divination is real have been collected by philosophers.

1.4.7.3 bea

"Etenim nobismet ipsis quaerentibus quid sit de divinatione iudicandum, quod a Carneade multa acute et copiose contra Stoicos disputata sint, verentibusque ne temere vel falsae rei vel non satis cognitae assentiamur, faciendum videtur ut diligenter etiam atque etiam argumenta cum argumentis comparemus, ut fecimus in eis tribus libris quos de natura deorum scripsimus."

In response to my own uncertainty on divination after considering Carneades's many pointed and copious arguments against the Stoic view, and my fears of carelessly agreeing to something false or insufficiently analyzed, it seemed best to diligently again and again compare argument to argument, just as I did in my three books On the Nature of the Gods.

1.4.7.10 int

"Nam cum omnibus in rebus temeritas in assentiendo errorque turpis est, tum in eo loco maxime in quo iudicandum est quantum auspiciis rebusque divinis religionique tribuamus; est enim periculum, ne aut neglectis iis impia fraude aut susceptis anili superstitione obligemur."

While missing any error is shameful, it is especially so when judging how much to attribute to auspices, prophecy, and religion; for there is a risk that rejection could offend the gods, while acceptance could involve us in sheer fantasy.

1.5.9.10 int/bea

Quintus: "Ego enim sic existimo, si sint ea genera divinandi vera, de quibus accepimus quaeque colimus, esse deos, vicissimque, si di sint, esse qui divinent."

So I think thus: if the kinds of divination which we have received from our ancestors and now cultivate are true, then there are gods, and in turn, if there are gods, then there is divination.

1.6.12.1 int/lan

Quintus: "Quae est autem gens aut quae civitas quae non aut extispicum aut monstra aut fulgora interpretantium, aut augurum, aut astrologorum, aut sortium (ea enim fere artis sunt), aut somniorum aut vaticinationum (haec enim duo naturalia putantur), praedictione moveatur?"

What nation or state is not moved by the predictions of entrails or portents, by lightning and thunder, or by augurs, astrologists, and oracles (these being dependent on art), or the interpretation of dreams and frenzy, considered natural forms of divination?

1.13.23.2 int/bea

Quintus: "nescire me fateor, evenire autem te ipsum dico videre. 'Casu,' inquis. itane vero? quicquam potest casu esse factum, quod omnes habet in se numeros veritatis? quattuor tali iacti casu Venerium efficiunt; num etiam centum Venerios, si quadringentos talos ieceris, casu futuros putas?"

I confess to not know, but you yourself admit it. 'Chance,' you say. But is it? Can anything be done by chance which has in itself all counts of truth? Four dice are cast making a Venus throw by chance [a different number on each upper face]. But what about one hundred Venus throws in as many casts? You still think it is by chance?

1.14.25.1 lan

Quintus: "Ea fallit fortasse non numquam, sed tamen ad veritatem saepissime derigit; est enim ab omni aeternitate repetita, in qua cum paene innumerabiliter res eodem modo evenirent isdem signis antegressis, ars est effecta eadem saepe animadvertendo ac notando."

Sometimes it is wrong, but very often the soothsayer's art points to truth. It has been noted countless times in every age that the same sign precedes the same effect.

1.15.26.4 int/lan

Quintus: "Qui cum ex itinere quodam proposito et constituto revertisset aquilae admonitus volatu, conclave illud, ubi erat mansurus, si ire perrexisset, proxima nocte corruit."

After he [King Deiotarus] turned back from a certain carefully planned journey due to the warning given him by an eagle's flight, the room where he was to stay collapsed the next night.

1.16.29.8 lan/bea

Quintus: "In quo Appius, collega tuus, bonus augur, ut ex te audire soleo, non satis scienter virum bonum et civem egregium censor C. Ateium notavit, quod ementitum auspicia subscriberet."

Appius, the censor, your colleague, and, as I often hear from you, a good augur, with insufficient evidence stigmatized Gaius Ateius, a good man and distinguished citizen, for falsifying the auspices.

1.16.29.20 bea

Quintus: "Etenim dirae, sicut cetera auspicia, ut omina, ut signa, non causas afferunt, cur quid eveniat, sed nuntiant eventura, nisi provideris."

For unfavorable prophecies, like other auspices, omens, and signs, are not the causes why something happens, but merely explain what will befall those who are insufficiently prepared.

1.17.33.4 int

Quintus: "Negemus omnia, comburamus annales, ficta haec esse dicamus, quidvis denique potius quam deos res humanas curare fateamur."

Deny everything, burn the records, say these are lies, anything not to recognize that gods look after our human affairs.

1.18.35.1 int/bea

Quintus: "Quae est igitur ista calliditas res vetustate robustas calumniando velle pervertere?"

What is your trickery to wish to overthrow by sophistry what has been established through the ages?

1.18.36.1 lan

Quintus: "qui irridetur, partus hic mulae nonne, quia fetus extitit in sterilitate naturae, praedictus est ab haruspicibus incredibilis partus malorum?"

Who is amused that when a mule sterile by nature gave birth, this was said by the soothsayers to portend the birth of incredible evils to the state?

1.19.38.3 int

Quintus: "Potest autem vis illa terrae quae mentem Pythiae divino afflatu concitabat evanuisse vetustate, ut quosdam evanuisse et exaruisse amnes aut in alium cursum contortos et deflexos videmus."

Perhaps that earthen force which was exciting the soul of the Pythian princess with divine inspiration has waned over a long time, as we see certain rivers have waned and dried up or been stirred and diverted to another course.

1.23.46.10 lan

Quintus: "Quid ego, quae magi Cyro illi principi interpretati sint, ex Dinonis Persicis proferam?"

Why need I bring up Dinon's Persian articles, the dreams of that famous prince Cyrus, and how the magi interpreted them?

1.25.53.13 int

Quintus: "Atque ita quidem prima statim scribit Aristoteles consecuta, et convaluisse Eudemum, et ab uxoris fratribus interfectum tyrannum; quinto autem anno exeunte, cum esset spes ex illo somnio in Cyprum illum ex Sicilia esse rediturum, proeliantem eum ad Syracusas occidisse; ex quo ita illud somnium esse interpretatum, ut, cum animus Eudemi e corpore excesserit, tum domum revertisse videatur."

Thus the first prophecy was immediately fulfilled, as writes Aristotle, when both Eudemus recovered from sickness and the tyrant was killed by his own wife's brothers. Then after five years, thinking from the dream that he would return home to Cyprus from Sicily, he died fighting outside of Syracuse. Accordingly, the dream was interpreted to mean that when the soul of Eudemus departed from his body, then it would have returned home.

1.26.55.1 lan

Quintus: "Sed quid ego Graecorum? nescio quo modo me magis nostra delectant."

But why do I speak of the Greeks? Somehow our own [Roman] examples please me more.

1.26.56.7 int/bea

Quintus: "Quo somnio quid inveniri potest certius?"

What can be found more certain than this dream?

1.28.57.20 int

Quintus: "Quid hoc somnio dici potest divinius?"

What can be had more divine than this dream?

1.30.62.9 int/lan

Quintus: "Ex quo etiam Pythagoricis interdictum putatur ne faba vescerentur, quod habet inflationem magnam is cibus tranquillitati mentis quaerentis vera contrariam."

There is thought to be a rule of the Pythagoreans not to eat beans, because this food induces great flatulence, which is contrary to the tranquility of a mind seeking truth.

1.34.74.8 int

Quintus: "Cumque eodem tempore apud Lebadiam Trophonio res divina fieret, gallos gallinaceos in eo loco sic assidue canere coepisse, ut nihil intermitterent; tum augures dixisse Boeotios Thebanorum esse victoriam, propterea quod avis illa victa silere soleret, canere, si vicisset."

At the same time as divine honors were being paid to Trophonius at Lebadia, poultry birds in the neighborhood began to sing assiduously and nothing would stop them. Therefore the Boeotian augurs said that the Thebans were victorious, as cocks were normally silent in defeat, sang in victory.

1.34.76.7 int

Quintus: "Tum ea, quae praeposita erat oraculo, sacerdos dixisse dicitur de salute Lacedaemoniis esse non de victoria cogitandum."

Then, the priestess is said to have said that the Spartans should think about what was predicted by the oracle, not for their victory but for their safety.

1.37.80.8 int/bea

Quintus: "Negat enim sine furore Democritus quemquam poëtam magnum esse posse, quod idem dicit Plato."

Democritus says that no one can be a great poet without frenzy, and likewise Plato.

1.38.81.13 lan/bea

Quintus: "Animi enim integri non vitiosi est corporis divinatio."

Divination is a power of the unimpaired soul, not the defective body.

1.38.82.1 int/lan/bea

Quintus: "quam quidem esse re vera hac Stoicorum ratione concluditur: 'Si sunt di neque ante declarant hominibus quae futura sint, aut non diligunt homines, aut quid eventurum sit ignorant; aut existimant nihil interesse hominum scire quid sit futurum, aut non censent esse suae maiestatis praesignificare hominibus quae sunt futura; aut ea ne ipsi quidem di significare possunt.'"

This is how the Stoics prove the existence of divination: 'If there are gods and they do not tell man the future, then either (1) they do not love man, or (2) they themselves do not know the future, or (3) they think that man does not need to know the future, or (4) they consider it beneath their majesty to forecast the future, or (5) they, though gods, cannot themselves give intelligible signs...'

1.39.84.2 int/bea

Quintus: "Quid est igitur cur dubitandum sit quin sint ea quae disputavi verissima, si ratio mecum facit, si eventa, si populi, si nationes, si Graeci, si barbari, si maiores etiam nostri, si denique hoc semper ita putatum est, si summi philosophi, si poëtae, si sapientissimi viri, qui res publicas constituerunt, qui urbes condiderunt?"

How could anyone doubt that what I said is extremely true, considering I have on my side reason, facts, peoples, the Greek and barbarian races, our own ancestors, the constant faith of all ages, the greatest philosophers, the poets, the wisest men, the designers of republics, and the founders of cities?

1.39.85.11 bea

Marcus: 'Quid deinde causae est cur Cassandra furens futura prospiciat, Priamus sapiens hoc idem facere non queat?'

For what reason is Cassandra able to see the future in frenzy, while Priam in wisdom cannot do the same?

1.39.87.4 lan

Quintus: "Quid vero hoc turpius, quam quod idem nullam censet gratuitam esse virtutem?"

But why should this be any less disgraceful than his consideration that there is no disinterested virtue?

1.40.89.11 int

Quintus: "Ut testis est nostra civitas, in qua et reges augures et postea privati eodem sacerdotio praediti rem publicam religionum auctoritate rexerunt."

Our own nation bears witness, in which kings were augurs and afterward private citizens held that office. They ruled the republic by religious authority.

1.42.93.1 int/lan

Quintus: "Ac mihi quidem videntur e locis quoque ipsis, qui a quibusque incolebantur, divinationum opportunitates esse ductae."

And it also seems to me that, out of those very places that are inhabited by each, come different opportunities for different types of divination.

1.42.93.16 bea

Quintus: "Quia enim ostendunt, portendunt, monstrant, praedicunt, ostenta, portenta, monstra, prodigia dicuntur."

Because they manifest, portend, demonstrate, and predict, they are called manifestations, portents, demonstrations, and predictions.

1.43.95.6 lan

Quintus: "Omitto nostros, qui nihil in bello sine extis agunt, nihil sine auspiciis domi, externa videamus."

Passing by our own people, who do nothing in war without reading entrails, nothing in peace without taking auspices, let us look at foreigners.

1.45.101.15 int/bea

Quintus: "Haec igitur et a dis significata et a nostris maioribus iudicata contemnimus?"

Shall we disregard these heavenly signs, validated even by our ancestors?

1.46.104.12 int/lan/bea

Quintus: "Haec posse contemni vel etiam rideri praeclare intellego, sed id ipsum est deos non putare, quae ab eis significantur, contemnere."

I keenly realize that these [omens] can be disregarded or even mocked, but to ignore the signs of the gods is itself to deny their very existence.

1.47.105.7 int/lan/bea

Quintus: "solus enim multorum annorum memoria non decantandi auguri, sed divinandi tenuit disciplinam."

Appius alone, by the record of many years, preserved the tradition of an augur not singing but divining.

1.52.118.4 int/bea

Quintus: "sed ita a principio inchoatum esse mundum, ut certis rebus certa signa praecurrerent, alia in extis, alia in avibus, alia in fulgoribus, alia in ostentis, alia in stellis, alia in somniantium visis, alia in furentium vocibus."

From the beginning, the universe was made in such a way that certain signs would anticipate certain future outcomes; and these signs would be found in sacrificial entrails, bird behavior, bolts of lightning, prodigies, the night sky, dreams, and even in states of psychosis.

1.42.118.9 int/lan/bea

Quintus: "Ea quibus bene percepta sunt, ei non saepe falluntur; male coniecta maleque interpretata falsa sunt non rerum vitio, sed interpretum inscientia."

Signs whose inferences are properly perceived are not often deceptive, but signs poorly comprehended and poorly interpreted may misdirect us, not because the signs themselves are faulty, but because their interpreters are unwise.

1.53.120.4 bea

Quintus: "Nam si animal omne, ut vult, ita utitur motu sui corporis, prono, obliquo, supino, membraque, quocumque vult, flectit, contorquet, porrigit, contrahit eaque ante efficit paene, quam cogitat, quanto id deo est facilius, cuius numini parent omnia!"

For if every animal freely uses the motion of its body, prone, oblique, or supine, and freely bends, rotates, extends, and retracts its limbs, all nearly without even thinking about it, how much easier should it be for a god, whose very nod all obey!

1.53.121.14 int

Quintus: "Caput arsisse Servio Tullio dormienti quae historia non prodidit?"

What historian fails to record that the sleeping Servius Tullius's head burst into flames?

1.55.125.11 lan

Quintus: "Fatum autem id appello, quod Graeci ειμαρμένη, id est ordinem seriemque causarum, cum causae causa nexa rem ex se gignat."

By fate I mean what the Greeks call ειμαρμένη, the ordered succession of causes where each cause is tied to the next and invokes an effective transition of itself.

1.55.125.13 bea

Quintus: "Ea est ex omni aeternitate fluens veritas sempiterna."

It is an inevitable truth flowing from everything eternal.

1.57.131.20 int/lan

Quintus: "Quid est igitur, cur, cum domus sit omnium una, eaque communis, cumque animi hominum semper fuerint futurique sint, cur ei, quid ex quoque eveniat, et quid quamque rem significet, perspicere non possint?"

When there is one home where all human souls live together, and these souls have always existed and always will exist, why should we not be able to perceive what each sign means and what it entails?

1.58.132.1 int

Quintus: "Nunc illa testabor, non me sortilegos neque eos, qui quaestus causa hariolentur, ne psychomantia quidem, quibus Appius, amicus tuus, uti solebat, agnoscere."

Now I will mention here that I do not recognize fortune-tellers, nor those who prophesy for money, nor even places of necromancy, which are nevertheless habitually consulted by your friend Appius.

1.58.132.16 int

Quintus: "Ego autem, qui et curare arbitror et monere etiam ac multa praedicere, levitate, vanitate, malitia exclusa divinationem probo."

Believing that the gods care for, advise, and educate us, I agree with divination that is free of triviality, falsity, and malice.

1.58.132.20 int

"Quae cum dixisset Quintus, 'praeclare tu quidem,' inquam, 'paratus, Quinte, venisti...'"

When Quintus had finished speaking, I said, "Quintus, you have come remarkably well-prepared..."

Book 2

2.1.1.1 int/lan/bea

"Quaerenti mihi multumque et diu cogitanti quanam re possem prodesse quam plurimis, ne quando intermitterem consulere rei publicae, nulla maior occurrebat quam si optimarum artium vias traderem meis civibus; quod compluribus iam libris me arbitror consecutum."

After thinking long and hard how to benefit the greatest number, lest my service to the State be interrupted, nothing seemed better to me than to hand over to my citizens the ways of the noblest arts, which I think I have already realized in my many books.

2.2.5.5 int/bea

"Equidem ex eis etiam fructum capio laboris mei, qui iam aetate provecti in nostris libris adquiescunt; quorum studio legendi meum scribendi studium vehementius in dies incitatur; quos quidem plures, quam rebar, esse cognovi."

Even in those already advanced in age, many more than I had thought, my labor bears fruit, for they find comfort in my books, and this causes my vigor in writing to be very much incited, more and more every day, by theirs in reading.

2.2.5.9 int/bea

"Magnificum illud etiam Romanisque hominibus gloriosum, ut Graecis de philosophia litteris non egeant; quod adsequar profecto, si instituta perfecero."

It would be magnificent and glorious for the Roman people if we should need no books on philosophy written only in Greek; which I should attain, if I finish my work.

2.2.6.3 int

"Ac mihi quidem explicandae philosophiae causam adtulit casus gravis civitatis, cum in armis civilibus nec tueri meo more rem publicam nec nihil agere poteram nec, quid potius, quod quidem me dignum esset, agerem, reperiebam."

The job to explain philosophy was given to me by the grave danger of the state, when among civil war I could neither defend the republic, as was my custom, nor do nothing, nor find any other job worthy of me.

2.2.6.7 int/lan/bea

"Dabunt igitur mihi veniam mei cives vel gratiam potius habebunt, quod, cum esset in unius potestate res publica, neque ego me abdidi neque deserui neque afflixi neque ita gessi, quasi homini aut temporibus iratus, neque porro ita aut adulatus aut admiratus fortunam sum alterius, ut me meae paeniteret."

My citizens will forgive me or thank me, because, when the republic was in the power of one, I neither hid nor deserted nor threw down, and I did not carry myself as if angry at the man or the times, nor further did I fawn upon or admire the fortune of another to such an extent that I should be unworthy of my own.

2.2.6.14 int

"Id enim ipsum a Platone philosophiaque didiceram, naturales esse quasdam conversiones rerum publicarum, ut eae tum a principibus tenerentur, tum a populis, aliquando a singulis."

One thing I had learned from Plato and philosophy is that there are certain natural revolutions of republics, now held by princes, now by the people, now by one.

2.3.8.1 int

"Nam cum de divinatione Quintus frater ea disseruisset, quae superiore libro scripta sunt, satisque ambulatum videretur, tum in bibliotheca, quae in Lycio est, assedimus. Atque ego: “accurate tu quidem,” inquam, “Quinte, et Stoice Stoicorum sententiam defendisti, quodque me maxime delectat, plurimis nostris exemplis usus es, et iis quidem claris et illustribus."

For when my brother had said these things about divination, which were written in the previous book, and we had walked at length, we sat in my library, and I said, "precisely indeed, Quintus, and like a Stoic, you have defended the position of the Stoics, and what delights me most is that you used many examples from Roman sources, and those indeed clear and bright."

2.3.8.11 int/bea

Marcus: "Si enim aliquid certi haberem quod dicerem, ego ipse divinarem, qui esse divinationem nego."

For if I should claim to know anything for certain, then I myself would be the diviner, while denying that divination exists!

2.3.9.3 bea

Marcus: "At eas quidem cernimus, audimus, gustamus, olfacimus, tangimus."

Those are things that we see, hear, taste, smell, and touch.

2.3.10.2 int

Marcus: "Num censes eos, qui divinare dicuntur, posse respondere, sol maiorne quam terra sit an tantus, quantus videatur? lunaque suo lumine an solis utatur? sol, luna quem motum habeat? quem quinque stellae, quae errare dicuntur? nec haec, qui divini habentur, profitentur se esse dicturos, nec eorum, quae in geometria describuntur, quae vera, quae falsa sint; sunt enim ea mathematicorum, non hariolorum."

Do you think individuals said to have the power of divination can answer, whether the sun is greater than the earth, or whether it is as big as it appears, or whether the moon has its own light or shines by that of the sun? Do they understand the motion of the sun and moon, and the stars that are said to wander? Your diviners admit that they cannot say. Nor do they say of things described in geometry which are true, which false; for these are the concerns of mathematicians, not prophets.

2.4.12.9 lan

Marcus: "Vide igitur, ne nulla sit divinatio."

Look and you may see that there is no such thing as divination.

2.5.14.15 bea

Marcus: "Talium ergo rerum, quae in fortuna positae sunt, praesensio divinatio est."

Divination is the presentiment of such things as depend on chance.

2.6.15.3 lan

Marcus: "Quid est enim aliud fors, quid fortuna, quid casus, quid eventus, nisi cum sic aliquid cecidit, sic evenit, ut vel non cadere atque evenire, ut vel aliter cadere atque evenire potuerit?"

What are chance, luck, accident, and fate, other than manners in which a thing can happen whose outcome might not have been, or might have been different?

2.6.16.11 int/bea

Marcus: "Nondum dico, quam haec signa nulla sint, fissum iecoris, corvi cantus, volatus aquilae, stellae traiectio, voces furentium, sortes, somnia; de quibus singulis dicam suo loco; nunc de universis."

I do not yet say how these signs are naught: the cleft in the liver, the song of the raven, the flight of an eagle, the fall of a star, the words of the insane, lots, and dreams; for I will speak about each of these individually. For now I wish to address them all as a whole.

2.8.21.14 bea

Marcus: "Nihil autem est pro certo futurum, quod potest aliqua procuratione accidere ne fiat."

Nothing is inevitable that can by some management be prevented.

2.9.22.7 int/lan

Marcus: "Ut omittamus superiores, Marcone Crasso putas utile fuisse tum, cum maximis opibus fortunisque florebat, scire sibi interfecto Publio filio exercituque deleto trans Euphratem cum ignominia et dedecore esse pereundum?"

Not to mention earlier times, do you think Marcus Crassus, when he was flourishing with unequalled power and wealth, would usefully have learned that he would perish in shame and disgrace across the Euphrates, with his son Publius killed and his own army destroyed?

2.9.22.11 int

Marcus: "An Cn. Pompeium censes tribus suis consulatibus, tribus triumphis, maximarum rerum gloria laetaturum fuisse, si sciret se in solitudine Aegyptiorum trucidatum iri amisso exercitu, post mortem vero ea consecutura, quae sine lacrimis non possumus dicere?"

Or do you think Gnaeus Pompey would find reward in his three consulships, his three triumphs, and the glory of his unequaled accomplishments, if he knew he would be cut down alone in an Egyptian desert, a story I cannot continue without tears?

2.9.23.1 int

Marcus: "Quid vero Caesarem putamus, si divinasset fore ut in eo senatu, quem maiore ex parte ipse cooptasset, in curia Pompeia, ante ipsius Pompei simulacrum, tot centurionibus suis inspectantibus, a nobilissimis civibus, partim etiam a se omnibus rebus ornatis, trucidatus ita iaceret ut ad eius corpus non modo amicorum, sed ne servorum quidem quisquam accederet, quo cruciatu animi vitam acturum fuisse?"

With what a tortured soul do you think Caesar would have lived his life, if he could have foreseen that in the Senate, the greater part of which he had coopted, in Pompey's hall, before the very statue of Pompey, with so many of his centurions looking on, he would be slain by the noblest citizens, some of whom owed him everything they had, and not only would none of his friends, but not even his slaves would dare approach the body?

2.9.23.9 int/bea

Marcus: "Certe igitur ignoratio futurorum malorum utilior est quam scientia."

Surely, then, ignorance is more useful than knowledge of future ills.

2.9.24.13 int

Marcus: "Sin autem certum est quid quaque de re quoque tempore futurum sit, quid est quod me adiuvent haruspices cum res tristissimas portendi dixerunt?"

But if it is certain what, when, and how everything is going to happen, what good is it to me that the soothsayers say the direst misfortunes are portended?

2.10.25.9 bea

Marcus: "Totum omnino fatum etiam Atellanio versu iure mihi esse irrisum videtur; sed in rebus tam severis non est iocandi locus."

The very idea of fate is also satirized in Atellan farces, and rightly so, I think, but on such serious matters joking would be out of place.

2.13.30.1 int/bea

Marcus: "Democritus tamen non inscite nugatur, ut physicus, quo genere nihil adrogantius: quód est ante pedes, némo spectat, caéli scrutantúr plagas."

Democritus plays the fool, for a natural philosopher, the most arrogant class, when he says: What is before his feet, nobody sees, but all study the snares of the sky.

2.14.33.2 bea

Marcus: "Sunt igitur artis inventa, non vetustatis, si est ars ulla rerum incognitarum."

These signs are therefore the inventions of art, not of age, if there even is an art of things unknown.

2.15.35.5 int

Marcus: "Pudet me non tui quidem, cuius etiam memoriam admiror, sed Chrysippi, Antipatri, Posidonii, qui idem istuc quidem dicunt, quod est dictum a te, ad hostiam deligendam ducem esse vim quandam sentientem atque divinam, quae toto confusa mundo sit."

I am not ashamed of you, whose memory even I admire, but of Chrysippus, Antipater, and Posidonius, who say the same as you, that for selection of a sacrificial victim guidance is asserted by a certain sentient and divine force which invests the entire universe.

2.15.35.11 int

Marcus: "Illud vero multo etiam melius, quod et a te usurpatum est et dicitur ab illis: cum immolare quispiam velit, tum fieri extorum mutationem, ut aut absit aliquid aut supersit; deorum enim numini parere omnia."

In truth it is even much better what they say and you parrot: 'When one wishes to perform a sacrifice, then there is a change in the entrails, some things being added and others taken away; for all things affirm the intentions of the gods.'

2.16.37.9 bea

Marcus: "An quod aspexit vestitu purpureo excordem Caesarem, ipse corde privatus est?"

Or did it lose its heart when it saw Caesar in his purple robe had lost his head?

2.16.37.12 int/bea

Marcus: "Urbem philosophiae, mihi crede, proditis, dum castella defenditis; nam, dum haruspicinam veram esse vultis, physiologiam totam pervertitis."

Trust me, you [Stoics] betray the city of philosophy to defend your fortress! For the sake of divination, you uproot all of physiology.

2.17.38.11 lan/bea

Marcus: "Mox de sortibus; quamquam tu quidem non hostiarum causam confirmas sortium similitudine, sed infirmas sortis collatione hostiarum."

Soon about lots; although you really don't affirm the cause of sacrifice by comparing it to lots; indeed, you weaken the cause of lots by comparing it to sacrifice.

2.19.44.10 bea

Marcus: "Si autem nubium conflictu ardor expressus se emiserit, id esse fulmen."

When, by collision of clouds, heat is driven out, the result is a thunderbolt.

2.22.46.11 bea

Marcus: "Sed te mirificam in latebram coniecisti; quod enim intellegeres fore ut premerere, cum ex te causas unius cuiusque divinationis exquirerem, multa verba fecisti te, cum res videres, rationem causamque non quaerere; quid fieret, non cur fieret, ad rem pertinere."

But you have hidden yourself in a remarkable spot; because you knew you would be in straits when I asked about each kind of divination, you surrounded your argument with many words saying that, though you see the effect, you care not how it happens, your only concern being what happens– not why.

2.21.47.12 int/bea

Marcus: "Hoc tam callide Iuppiter cogitavit!"

How clever for Jupiter to think of using thunderbolts to warn us of danger!

2.23.51.10 lan/bea

Marcus: "Sed ego insipientior quam illi ipsi, qui ista credunt, qui quidem contra eos tam diu disputem."

I am no wiser than the very people who believe such things, when I perpetually argue against them.

2.24.51.13 int/bea

Marcus: "Vetus autem illud Catonis admodum scitum est, qui mirari se aiebat quod non rideret haruspex haruspicem cum vidisset."

That old remark was quite apt when Cato said, "It is remarkable to me that a soothsayer would not laugh at another soothsayer if they ever met."

2.25.54.8 lan

Marcus: "Quid autem volunt di immortales primum ea significantes, quae sine interpretibus non possimus intellegere, deinde ea, quae cavere nequeamus?"

What do the gods want, first by giving us signs we cannot understand without interpreters, and then by warning us of things we cannot prevent?

2.26.55.11 lan/bea

Marcus: "Ut enim in causis iudicialibus alia coniectura est accusatoris, alia defensoris et tamen utriusque credibilis, sic in omnibus eis rebus, quae coniectura investigari videntur, anceps reperitur oratio."

Just as in legal trials some things are inferred by the accuser, some by the defender, yet both make a plausible case, in all things prosecuted by conjecture the argument is seen to be manifold.

2.27.58.9 int/bea

Marcus: "Atque haec in bello plura et maiora videntur timentibus, eadem non tam animadvertuntur in pace; accedit illud etiam, quod in metu et periculo cum creduntur facilius, tum finguntur impunius."

They seem to be more and greater to the timid during war, the same being less compelling in peace; in addition, because in fear and danger they are believed more easily, such stories are connived with greater impunity.

2.27.59.1 lan

Marcus: "Nos autem ita leves atque inconsiderati sumus, ut, si mures corroserint aliquid, quorum est opus hoc unum, monstrum putemus?"

Are we so superficial and thoughtless that, if mice eat away at something, which is, of course, their one job, we call it a portent?

2.28.60.11 bea

Marcus: "Ita te nec terrae fremitus, nec caeli discessus, nec lapideus aut sanguineus imber, nec traiectio stellae, nec faces visae terrebunt."

Neither shaking of the ground, nor parting of the sky, nor raindrops of stone or blood, nor the falling of a star, nor even visiting torches will frighten you.

2.29.62.12 lan

Marcus: "Quasi vero referat, quod fieri potest, quam id saepe fiat."

As if it mattered to whether a thing can happen how often it happens!

2.31.66.1 lan

Marcus: "Atque haec ostentorum genera mirabile nihil habent; quae cum facta sunt, tum ad coniecturam aliqua interpretatione revocantur, ut illa tritici grana in os pueri Midae congesta, aut apes quas dixisti in labris Platonis consedisse pueri—non tam mirabilia sint quam coniecta belle; quae tamen vel ipsa falsa esse, vel ea quae praedicta sunt, fortuito cecidisse potuerunt."

But these kinds of portents have nothing remarkable; when they happen, they are transformed into a prophecy by some interpretation, as the grains of wheat heaped into the mouth of the boy Midas, or the bees which you said were settled on the lips of the boy Plato– they would not be more amazing as prophecies than as suitable guesses; additionally, the stories themselves may be false, or what is predicted could have happened by chance.

2.33.70.8 int

Marcus: "Non enim sumus ei nos augures, qui avium reliquorumve signorum observatione futura dicamus."

We Roman augurs are not the type to predict the future by observing birds and other signs.

2.33.70.10 int

Marcus: "Et tamen credo Romulum, qui urbem auspicato condidit, habuisse opinionem esse in providendis rebus augurandi scientiam (errabat enim multis in rebus antiquitas), quas, vel usu iam, vel doctrina, vel vetustate immutatam videmus; retinetur autem et ad opinionem vulgi et ad magnas utilitates rei publicae mos, religio, disciplina, ius augurium, collegi auctoritas."

I think Romulus, who founded the city in accordance with the auspices, thought the science of augury lay in foreseeing the future (for the ancients erred in many things), which we see has evolved by experience, education, and the passage of time; yet, for the sake of the common opinion and because of great use to the republic, we have retained from the time of the founders the augural practices, religious rites, discipline, laws, and authority of the augural college.

2.35.74.3 int

Marcus: "Fulmen sinistrum auspicium optimum habemus ad omnis res praeterquam ad comitia; quod quidem institutum rei publicae causa est, ut comitiorum vel in iudiciis populi vel in iure legum vel in creandis magistratibus principes civitatis essent interpretes."

Lighting on the left is the best omen except for elections, and this exception was instituted for the republic, so that over elections, whether ruling on criminal cases, enacting laws, or appointing magistrates, the leaders of the state should preside [instead of the weather].

2.36.76.3 int/bea

Marcus: "Externa enim auguria, quae sunt non tam artificiosa quam superstitiosa, videamus."

Now to foreign auguries, which are not so much technical as superstitious.

2.36.77.11 int

Marcus: "Huic simile est, quod nos augures praecipimus, ne iuge auspicium obveniat ut iumenta iubeant diiungere."

This is like how our augurs advise mules to be held unyoked, lest a iuge auspicium happen, where two mules yoked together dung at the same time.

2.36.78.1 int/lan

Marcus: "Quid est aliud nolle moneri a Iove nisi efficere ut, aut ne fieri possit auspicium, aut, si fiat, videri?"

To ensure that an auspice could not happen, or, if it did, could not be noted, is no less than to be unwilling to be warned by Jove.

2.38.80.17 bea

Marcus: "Placet igitur humanitatis expertis habere divinitatis auctores!"

We shall have authors of divinity free from humanity!

2.39.81.2 lan

Marcus: "Quasi vero quicquam sit tam valde quam nihil sapere vulgare, aut quasi tibi ipsi in iudicando placeat multitudo!"

As if there were anything so common and widespread as knowing nothing– or as if you would be satisfied by the judgement of the crowd!

2.39.82.9 int

Marcus: "Ita nobis sinistra videntur, Graiis et barbaris dextra meliora."

To us Romans the left is preferred, to Greeks and barbarians the right is better.

2.39.83.2 int/bea

Marcus: "Quod aliis avibus utuntur, aliis signis, aliter observant, alia respondent, non necesse est fateri partim horum errore susceptum esse, partim superstitione, multa fallendo?"

Because other nations who use other birds, other signs, and make other observations, have different responses, it is obvious that divination is undertaken partly by error, partly out of superstition, and very much in fraud.

2.40.83.10 bea

Marcus: "Hoc est ipsum esse contra se copiosum et disertum!"

That is to oppose oneself with eloquence and precision!

2.43.91.15 int

Marcus: "Reliqua vero tria intervalla infinita et inmensa, a sole ad Martis, inde ad Iovis, ab eo ad Saturni stellam, inde ad caelum ipsum, quod extremum atque ultimum mundi est."

The remaining three intervals are incalculable, from the Sun to Mars, from there to Jupiter, from there to Saturn, and from there to the very ceiling of space, the last and farthest region in the universe.

2.46.97.2 lan

Marcus: "Nam quod aiunt quadringenta septuaginta milia annorum in periclitandis experiendisque pueris, quicumque essent nati, Babylonios posuisse, fallunt; si enim esset factitatum, non esset desitum; neminem autem habemus auctorem, qui aut fieri dicat aut factum sciat."

When they say that for 470,000 years the Babylonians have been taking and comparing the horoscopes of all children born, they are wrong; for if they had been doing it, they would not have stopped; and indeed we should have a witness who either says it happens or knows if it ever did.

2.47.99.7 int

Marcus: "Quam multa ego Pompeio, quam multa Crasso, quam multa huic ipsi Caesari, a Chaldaeis dicta memini, neminem eorum nisi senectute, nisi domi, nisi cum claritate esse moriturum! ut mihi permirum videatur quemquam exstare, qui etiam nunc credat eis quorum praedicta cotidie videat re et eventis refelli."

How often for Pompeius, for Crassus, for the very Caesar, I remember it dictated by the Astrologers, that none would die except in old age, at home, and lucid! It still amazes me that anyone is left who trusts those whose predictions, as we see day after day, are contrary to the actual outcome.

2.49.103.3 int/bea

Marcus: "Conclusio autem rationis ea probanda est, in qua ex rebus non dubiis id quod dubitatur efficitur."

A chain of reasoning should demonstrate that a proposition follows from agreed-upon premises.

2.51.105.2 lan/bea

Marcus: "Hic vero quanta pugna est doctissimorum hominum negantium esse haec a dis inmortalibus constituta!"

What a battle there is of the most learned men who argue that certain things are ordained by the immortal gods!

2.51.106.19 bea

Marcus: "Iacet igitur tota conclusio."

Therefore, your whole argument falls to the ground.

2.54.110.5 int/lan/bea

Marcus: "Quorum interpres nuper falsa quadam hominum fama dicturus in senatu putabatur eum, quem re vera regem habebamus, appellandum quoque esse regem, si salvi esse vellemus."

It was recently thought that an interpreter of the Sibyline verses was going to report a certain false rumor in the Senate, namely that our functional king [Caesar] should also be called King, if we wished to be safe.

2.55.114.7 lan

Marcus: "Casum autem proeli nemo nostrum erat quin timeret; sed, ita ut constantibus hominibus par erat, non aperte."

Each of us was afraid of the disaster of battle, but, as men standing firm together, not openly so.

2.55.114.10 bea

Marcus: "Ille autem Graecus, quid mirum si, magnitudine timoris, ut plerumque fit, a constantia atque a mente atque a se ipse discessit?"

Little wonder that the little Greek, due to the power of fear, as often happens, lost his discipline, his mind, and his own self.

2.56.115.4 int/lan/bea

Marcus: "Tuis enim oraculis Chrysippus totum volumen implevit partim falsis, ut ego opinor, partim casu veris, ut fit in omni oratione saepissime; partim flexiloquis et obscuris, ut interpres egeat interprete, et sors ipsa ad sortes referenda sit; partim ambiguis, et quae ad dialecticum deferenda sint."

Chrysippus filled a whole volume with the prophecies of your oracles, partly false, I think, partly true by chance (which happens often), partly deceptive and obscure, so an interpreter needs an interpreter and an oracle must consult an oracle, and partly ambiguous tricks of language.

2.56.116.1 int

Marcus: "Utrum igitur eorum accidisset, verum oraclum fuisset."

Regardless what happened, the oracle's predictions would still be right.

2.58.119.14 bea

Marcus: "Sed nescio quo modo nihil tam absurde dici potest quod non dicatur ab aliquo philosophorum."

Somehow, nothing could be said so absurdly that it is not the expression of some philosopher.

2.59.121.4 int

Marcus: "Totas noctes dormimus, neque ulla est fere, qua non somniemus, et miramur aliquando id quod somniarimus evadere?"

We sleep all night, and there is hardly any night in which we do not dream, yet we are surprised that sometimes a dream comes true?

2.63.129.1 int/bea

Marcus: Venit enim iam in contentionem, utrum sit probabilius, deosne immortalis, rerum omnium praestantia excellentis, cursare omnium mortalium qui ubique sunt, non modo lectos, verum etiam grabatos et, cum stertentem aliquem viderint, obicere eis visa quaedam tortuosa et obscura, quae illi exterriti somno ad coniectorem mane deferant?

It comes now into contention whether it is more likely that the immortal gods, most excellent in all things, chase mortals around in their beds, and, when they see someone snoring, throw at him a twisted and obscure vision, causing him to wake in terror, so that first thing in the morning he reports the dream to an interpreter?

2.68.141.8 int

Marcus: "Sed nihil est magnum somnianti."

Nothing is too great to appear in a dream.

2.70.144.1 int

Marcus: "Quid? ipsorum interpretum coniecturae nonne magis ingenia declarant eorum quam vim consensumque naturae?"

Don't the conjectures of those who interpret dreams exhibit the wit of the interpreter more than any harmony with the laws of nature?

2.70.145.6 int/lan/bea

Marcus: "quae est ars coniectoris eludentis ingenio? an ea, quae dixi, et innumerabilia, quae collecta habent Stoici, quicquam significant nisi acumen hominum ex similitudine aliqua coniecturam modo huc, modo illuc ducentium?"

What is the interpreter's art other than clever deception? Those stories which I spoke of, and countless others collected by the Stoics, demonstrate nothing other than the skill of men using analogies to make one inference after another.

2.71.146.4 int/bea

Marcus: "...nihil tam praepostere, tam incondite, tam monstruose cogitari potest, quod non possimus somniare."

Nothing so wrong, so crude, or so strange is conceivable that could not be a dream.

2.71.146.11 int/bea

Marcus: "...ut mihi mirum videatur, cum mendaci homini ne verum quidem dicenti credere soleamus, quo modo isti, si somnium verum evasit aliquod, non ex multis potius uni fidem derogent quam ex uno innumerabilia confirment."

As we do not trust a liar even telling the truth, it amazes me how, if a dream turns out to be true, from one truth many are affirmed, while from many falsities one is not belied!

2.72.148.1 int/bea

Marcus: "Explodatur igitur haec quoque somniorum divinatio pariter cum ceteris."

Divination by dreams is thus shouted off the stage like the others.

2.72.148.2 int/bea

Marcus: "Nam, ut vere loquamur, superstitio, fusa per gentis, oppressit omnium fere animos atque hominum imbecillitatem occupavit."

Truly, superstition, embedded in all peoples, sustained by man's weakness, oppresses the mind of nearly all of us.

2.72.148.8 int

Marcus: "Nec vero—id enim diligenter intellegi volo—superstitione tollenda religio tollitur."

I earnestly wish it to be understood that religion is not removed with the removal of superstition.

2.72.148.10 int/bea

Marcus: "...esse praestantem aliquam aeternamque naturam, et eam suspiciendam admirandamque hominum generi pulchritudo mundi ordoque rerum caelestium cogit confiteri."

The beauty and celestial order of the universe demonstrate for me that some nature exists, surpassing and eternal, to be honored and admired by man.

2.72.149.3 int/lan/bea

Marcus: "Instat enim et urget et, quo te cumque verteris, persequitur, sive tu vatem sive tu omen audieris, sive immolaris sive avem aspexeris, si Chaldaeum, si haruspicem videris, si fulserit, si tonuerit, si tactum aliquid erit de caelo, si ostenti simile natum factumve quippiam; quorum necesse est plerumque aliquid eveniat, ut numquam liceat quieta mente consistere."

Superstition follows you and presses you, and, wherever you turn, pursues you, whether you hear a prophet or an omen, or offer a sacrifice or watch the flight of a bird, or consult an astrologer or soothsayer, or if lightning flashes, thunders, and  touches the ground, or if a prodigy is born or made; always watching for signs, there will be no room for a quiet mind.

2.72.150.19 int

Marcus: "Tenebimus hanc consuetudinem, a Socrate traditam, eaque inter nos, si tibi, Quinte frater, placebit, quam saepissime utemur."

I will hold on to this custom, handed off by Socrates, and will continue to use it as often as possible with you, Quintus, dear bother, if you agree.