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Warning: This page is a bit of a mess. I'm not sure if anyone will read it at all. I'll will gladly make more work on this if people seems interested. Let me know in the talk pages.

Invalid Data[edit]

Here is the confirmed case in China starting at jan 22. And 2 curve of theoretical exponential growth. As we can see, if there was a unique case in Dec 1 or even Nov 1, we would have got at best 1 single day of true data somewhere at the start of FEB 1. The rest of the data of confirmed case would be under the real curve since then. And by now orders of magnitude lower then the real cases.

The data from any other point of confirmed cases data only inform us on the amount of cases tested. And could not reflect any real progression curve of the virus.

What does it mean?[edit]

All the confirmed case data we have is pointless and only a depiction of our own test capacity until we hit a change in the curve. The usage of the test production as indicator of a curve or any model is buggus and ill-informed. I see too many governments and scientists using the confirmed cases curve. 2 exponential curves can only meet at one point (2, but that's obviously impossible in this case).

The first usable data is the one obtained when the curve drastically change. When the graph switch from showing the amount of tested and showing the amount testable. I believe we can clearly see it in Italy's death data since March 21.

This mean that attempt to infer the effectiveness of the social distancing using the previous curve is futile.

Here is a line called season 3x, it simulate a sinusoidal curve, live seasonal pneumonia. It would be coherent with the confirmed case data. However, the death count on Feb 21 would have been over 400. The death count would have largely exceeded the seasonal values and I postulate that we would have noticed the 150 exceeding daily death.

Suggested model[edit]

My suggested model in red pose the first death in Italy on dec ~10. growth (daily): 1.0785697466622, susceptible to die: 317269 Italians.

By July death count: 40519. Distancing impact so far: 1500 deaths If maintained up to july??: 2784 deaths

The R0 seems high. ~2.5 but also 45% of the population seem resistant cutting the pool of victim quite a bit. therefore 13% of the susceptible population dying.

Rerun may 9[edit]

$m['a']=-93.496587895621; //~dec 15 $m['b']=1.0779228959116; //Growth rate per day (R0 of 3 assumign 15 days of infectivness) $m['d']=0.0084969690972043; //impact of distancing on $m['b'] $m['c']=317269.64892627; //Maximum susceptible deaths.

Troubled by the exact same susceptible number, i tried to kick the 'b' parameter in another position (1.1), and run the script setting the the susceptible amount first in the approximation, i land on vaguely different numbers : $m['a']=-85.562622590657; $m['b']=1.0849025277116; $m['d']=0.016467854572557; $m['c']=308028.78536532;

Everything fought back in a very similar position. Since the distancing impact was higher on that model, I kept the no distancing like for this one.

June 22[edit]

Hi I'm back !

$m['a']=-125.65159588571;//num of days before feb 16 (initial case)
$m['b']=1.0852279984699;//growth rate (per day)
$m['d']=0.0093283765873803;//Maximum Impact of mitigation
$m['e']=0.56407657414306;//Likely % of people susceptible on feb 16
$m['f']=0.0011272578709613;//% of people becoming susceptible (remote villages etc..)
$m['g']=0.99595695951109;//% of immune people keeping their immunity (daily)
$m['h']=11255.0881;//Death count before feb 16
$m['c']=725890.01044992;//Total susceptible

--- 2 (trying to seek for a credible mitigation impact)
$m['a']=-141.42197815993;//num of days before feb 16 (initial case)
$m['b']=1.0706780360658;//growth rate (per day)
$m['d']=0.01887266008676;//Maximum Impact of mitigation
$m['e']=0.79285388387757;//Likely % of people susceptible on feb 16
$m['f']=0.0015038745097599;//% of people becoming susceptible (remote villages etc..)
$m['g']=0.99745179158056;//% of immune people keeping their immunity (daily)
$m['h']=10553.565694855;//Death count before feb 16
$m['c']=747666.71076345;//Total susceptible

It became obvious as I was simulating on more and more data that the model I had was too simple. There was more susceptible people entering the model over time. There were people infected before feb 16, etc. There is many other factor i can simulate. Sadly, the more I add the more it become art rather then hard science as nothing of this have been tested. So take the numbers here with skepticism.

2 things worth mentionning about this model. Saddly it seems to stabilise on a parameter g of 0.996%, this mean that saddly 0.004% of the immune people are losing the immunity daily. This mean people could be infectious every year. Also the param a seems to have backed an entire month since I allowed the model to consider the param h. That would mean a first case in italy around oct 15.

Quote from wikipedia i found after running this simulation : In the month of March, 10,900 excess deaths have been estimated, that have not been reported as COVID-19 deaths.[479] [1] (see my parameter H projection).


When I did the apr 7 evaluation, I assumed that that data before march 27 was noise. There was an apparent plateau from march 21 onward, but the spike of death on march 27 made me believe that it was not usable and that I should start from there. in retrospect, with the may 9 rerun, even if it's still instructed to only account for march 27 and later, the curve seems to accommodate nicely the data from march 21 and consider both march 21 and march 27 as both abnormally high spike. If i had used the data from march 21, my apr 7 model would be even more accurate. I'm still happy with the early projection, it shows that my model worked.

Other idea toyed with[edit]

Finally, I'm adding 2 curves. One orange with distancing and one purple with no distancing. The distancing indeed save 10k lives in those models, from 15k to 25k total deaths. The problem with those curves is that they suppose a very small pool of 75k susceptible max people. And a growth rate that is very hard to explain (Even less given the tiny pool of people at risk). This is the best social distancing can do, anyhow.

Today I pushed the model to find my worst plausible case (in cyan). It require a R0 of 12 without distancing and 2.5 with distancing and a very specific amount of people susceptible (186000). I don't think our data match with that (specially the high starting R0), but i wanted to try my best to reach worst cases that some other source have predicted. Death without distancing : 40k with distancing : 20k . But i want to stress again, this model is stable only if I lock the social distance impact to that high level and cherry pick the perfect susceptible amount to reach the perfect recipe for disaster.

Interesting discovery[edit]

I'm not sure how, I think it have to do with the curve in the data. But I seem to be able to see that the absolute maximum amount of Italian susceptible of dying is about 300'000. However, if i use the current age pyramid of Italy and compile it with the current CFR of the decease we could get a total of 4'869'075 deaths. It could mean 2 things. 1) Some of the italian are already immune or 2) they have mild cases that doesn't get tested.

I can't know for sure but all i know is only 6.1% of Italians should be concerned about the actual CFR. Iluvalar (discusscontribs) 00:33, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Social distance efficacy[edit]

I'm thinking today, if 60-70% of the population must be immune to stall the spreading. By social distancing we may remove 30% of the risk (or more precisely, half the risk for 60% of us) and stall the curve at a lower place. But it is paradoxically increasing the risk to eventually get sick for people who have to stay active. The nurses who take care of the elderly now have a 100% chance to get eventually the virus. Less chance this week, but more eventually. At the end it just guarantee to our elderly that each and every nurse taking care of them will have the virus at some point instead of the basic 70%. This could explain why the models i'm using kinda refuse to give a too big effect on social distancing. The effect is positive, but some of it backfire at us.


Computer assisted Step-by-step minima optimization via recursion in a 4D space. That was to sound smart, technically it boils down to make thousands of simulation and see which one fit best the data we have. Some of those curves were achieved by locking some of the parameter at specific values to see how plausible is the curve as explained above.


Per request but it's hugly. If you want to add a premise or test a scenario, it is likely faster to contact me here and ask me to edit that soup myself to spit more projection.

//Covid sim
//Warning : This code only find the local minima to minimize the distance with the Real data
// It does not interpret it and can and will spit non-sens given the premises fed to it.
error_reporting(E_ALL & ~E_NOTICE);
$ital2=[0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 4, 3, 2, 5, 4, 8, 5, 18, 27, 28, 41, 49, 36, 133, 97, 168, 196, 189, 250, 175, 368, 349, 345, 475, 427, 627, 793, 651, 601, 743, 683, 712, 919, 889, 756, 812, 837, 727, 760, 766, 681, 525, 636, 604, 542];
$italydeaths=[627, 793, 651, 601, 743, 683, 712, 919, 889, 756, 812, 837, 727, 760, 766, 681, 525, 636, 604, 542];
function model2($m,$daymax){ //This is just good old SIR not even integrated 
	return $case;
function approx_improv(&$m,$data,$index,$adj=1.1){
	//echo '<br>check:'. $check .' '. $adj;
	while(!$stop and $x++<100){
		//echo '<br>--check2@'. $m[$index] .'='. $check2;
	while(!$stop and $x++<100){
		//echo '<br>--check2@'. $m[$index] .'='. $check2;
function approx_diff($m,$data){
	$ret=pow($ret,2); //I used this bit to create a false data point
	foreach($data as $no => $val){
		//echo '<br>'. $no .','. $val .'|'. $modelval .')';
			$diff=pow(1/$diff,2); //This cheeky power here make values under the curve less plausible
	return $ret;

$m['a']=-99.190530098464; //Day of 1st death
$m['b']=1.0785697466622; //Growth per day 
$m['d']=0.0073135735980529; //impact of distancing on $m['b']
$m['c']=317269.64892627; //Maximum sucseptible deaths.

echo "<br>\$m['a']=". $m['a'];
echo ";<br>\$m['b']=". $m['b'];
echo ";<br>\$m['d']=". $m['d'];
echo ";<br>\$m['c']=". $m['c'] .';<br>';
while($x++<count($ital2)+100){ //+100 so the the sum of deaths can be calculated
	//echo '('. $day .'):';
	echo floor($val) .',';
echo '<br>sum:'. $sum;