User talk:Turnvater Jahn

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Hello Jahn, also welcome around here. I hope we can help you succeed in your learning goals. Below more info about Wikiversity, ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 17:43, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


Hello Turnvater Jahn, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon Button sig.png in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may

And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold to contribute and to experiment with the sandbox or your userpage, and see you around Wikiversity! ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 17:43, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. But don't forget education and research goals. They are also necessary to build up this project. -- Turnvater Jahn 18:10, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Solidago canadensis???[edit]

In May? --SB_Johnny | talk 18:04, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, yesterday i saw S. gigantea and and S. canadensis blooming. or wait, was that only the image of these plants in my head? i'll go and look, in hals an hour, you have an answer. good, that you asked. -- Turnvater Jahn 18:09, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Can't possibly be blooming outside this time of year (S. gigantea the same..., at least not in the Northern Hemisphere). --SB_Johnny | talk 18:11, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Of corse, you are right. must have been the combination of the young plants (1/2 m) and the relicts of the last year plants (or better biomass) that caused that illusion, when i was recording plant species for de:Projekt:Atlas der Blütenpflanzen (plant mapping). here, both species are quiet commom and invasive, and bloom in summer. how embarrassing. i'll delete my log, but log Sanguisorba minor, i saw blooming yesterday. -- Turnvater Jahn 18:28, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
heh, happens to us all once in a while :). By the way, you might try using the page creation templates rather than copy-pasting... you're adding fields that have been made obsolete. New BCP pages can be made using {{subst:bcp3|<scientific name>|<common name>}}. We've had to update the templates a few times over the years as they've been improved and made easier to use. --SB_Johnny | talk 18:44, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
ok, next time i'll try the templates. enter the code, save, edit and enter data? thanks. -- Turnvater Jahn 22:10, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Yup. There will be instructions on how to make the log page as well... still need to work a bit on the instructions, so please let me know if anything is unclear (ich kann auch Deutsch lesen und schrieben, wenn Sie die englishe Wörte nicht finden konnen). --SB_Johnny | talk 23:34, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Oh, i will better use a dictionary and enhance my english. apropos, a little tip: in internet context, "Du" is more usual than "Sie" in german, it's not so official. i'll try the template tomorrow, after cataloguizing a further sample area. -- Turnvater Jahn 02:47, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Welcome to the Bloom Clock![edit]

Hello, Turnvater Jahn, and thanks for signing up as a contributor to the Bloom Clock!

To get started, all that you need to do is keep your eyes open for flowers on plants growing outdoors. Then, depending on how well you know plants, you can either try to find the plant using the global keys, or just check the master list where plants are listed by their scientific names.

Assuming you find a log page for the plant you saw, all that you need to do is click [edit] above the list of signatures, and add *~~~~ on a new line below the last signature and above the line that begins with <noinclude>, which will make your signature appear on the profile page.

If you don't find a log page, just add an entry for the plant to the Master List using {{bcp|Scientific name|Common Name}}. Someone can then show you how to create a profile and log page for the plant.

If you don't know the name of the plant you saw, try asking on Bloom Clock/Unknown Plants using the template there. Photographs are very helpful, but if you don't have a digital camera, just give the best description you can and hopefully someone can identify it for you.

After you've logged 10 or more plants as flowering for your location, another bloom clock contributor will help you set up the categories and templates used to construct a key for your region, and try to match up your region to the global keys.

If you have any questions, ideas, or need something explained, please feel free to leave a message on my talk page, and I'll get back to you as soon as I can! --SB_Johnny | talk 18:11, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Log pages[edit]

Hi again. I'm going to set up your templates and categories soon, but noticed a problem with some of the log pages you've made. See BCP/Solidago gigantea/Logs, for example, now re-created using {{subst:bcp3-logs|Solidago gigantea|Giant Goldenrod}}.

The Log page template is designed to do several things, including showing instructions on how to log, adding a category for keeping track, and creating archival sections (quite necessary, since imagine how silly BCP/Taraxacum officinale would look if all the logs on BCP/Taraxacum officinale/Logs showed on the profile page!). When you create a new page using {{bcp3}}, it will automatically create a section on the top of the page that creates a red link to the log page and shows the exact text to copy and paste to there.

The template for recording monthly appearances, native/cultivated/invasive status, etc. will for now use "New Region 6=" on the middle template (next time the bot runs we will have new region 6 changed to your region name). I'll explain more of that later.

BTW, we use one field of the middle template for the Czech name of plants... should I set up a German name field as well? --SB_Johnny | talk 11:20, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for informations. I'd say, for me german names are not necessary, but i often wonder (or smile) about english names, so maybe it is just interesting. i could try to fill this field, when created. -- Turnvater Jahn 02:38, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
I can set it up any time (German names are funny to me too!) :-). BTW, please be sure to use the template when creating the /Logs page. People can't edit the page properly if it's not linked ([1])! --SB_Johnny | talk 12:38, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

New Region 6[edit]

I set up the template and category for Leipzig Lowlands, Saxony, Germany. To "register" a plant as blooming there in May on the log pages, you can now add {{bcpm/leilo/5}} to the "New Region 6 =" field of the middle template. For an example, see this diff. This adds categories and links to the keys (not yet created). The categories will eventually be used to tie your region into the global temperate keys as well.

If you get the chance, please go through your contribs and update the profile pages with that template for plants you saw blooming this month. Next month you will use {{bcpm/leilo/6}} for June, etc.

BTW, I have not yet set up the templates, but if you want to also add native/invasive/cultivated status for these plants use the following templates:

You can use 2 of the above for plants which are, for example, both native and cultivated, or both invasive and cultivated. Please don't add those tags to genus profiles, unless the entire genus is native to your region :). --SB_Johnny | talk 11:53, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Very usefull field! i think, invasive is not equal to neophyt? maybe, the latter is easier to define?
and, one question: is if possible (to handle for the bot) to log a plant and change the date? last week, i recorded a lot of blooming plants, but had no internet access to log them. -- Turnvater Jahn 02:38, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, I doubt a bot could really do that (too many variables), but there are plenty of other things a smart bot could do (like maintaining the keys). Let me know if you come up with something though!
Not sure what neophyt means. "Invasive or naturalized" means non-native but established as a wild population. --SB_Johnny | talk 10:47, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
By definition, neophytes are plant species, that immigrated to regions not native for them after 1492 due to human activities (or transported by humans?). Species that immigrated before are called archaeophytes. Further, one could distinguish them to non-naturalized and naturalized (in case populations maintain for several generations without human influence). invasive (for the latter) is definded (by the [german env. protection agency]) as having undesired effects on other species, communities or biotopes. so maybe one could categorize:
  • indigenous
  • cultivated
  • archaeophytes
  • neophytes
    • non-naturalized
    • naturalized
      • invasive
So i think, non-naturalized does not necessiate cultivated. Just think about repeated transport of diaspores by car tires or cargo ships that causes the continuous occurrence of species near roads or port facilities, that could not persist without diaspore supplies and disturbed habitats. But maybe, this is hair-splitting. -- Turnvater Jahn 15:16, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, the way we've used it so far is that a plant is either native (but not cultivated), native and cultivated, cultivated (but not necessarily invasive/naturalized), cultivated and invasive, or just invasive/naturalized (and not cultivated). It's easier to just use 3 categories since it gets the job done :). --SB_Johnny | talk 16:39, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh, great. I just read, that bots can be written in java and python, two languages i master. This will simplify the undertaking. -- Turnvater Jahn 15:38, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


Hiya again :). There's no bot to do that... you add the category like this. "New Region 6 = " will be changed (on all BCP pages!) to "Leipzig Lowlands, Germany = " next time the bot runs through (please don't do it manually... this confuses the poor bot), but the actual data entry has to be done by human editors, using templates in the bcpm series. --SB_Johnny | talk 14:43, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok. Maybe you can add "Chemnitz, foothills Ore Mountains, Saxony" to the regions list then. Isn't the data collection possible by bot, or did you just write none yet? I think, i'll have to deal with such a data collection bot for "my" project on ger wv, so maybe i can also write one for BCP then. But in the moment, i have not a clue about how to write bots in the wiki, yet. -- Turnvater Jahn 03:19, 6 June 2008 (UTC)