User talk:Scogdill

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Hello and Welcome to Wikiversity Scogdill! You can contact us with questions at the colloquium or me personally when you need help. Please remember to sign and date your finished comments when participating in discussions. The signature icon OOUI JS signature icon LTR.svg above the edit window makes it simple. All users are expected to abide by our Privacy, Civility, and the Terms of Use policies while at Wikiversity.

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You do not need to be an educator to edit. You only need to be bold to contribute and to experiment with the sandbox or your userpage. See you around Wikiversity! --mikeu talk 20:58, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Project Idea[edit]

Hello, please ping me if you need any assistance. I've organized Public humanities as a portal for some of the student projects that various classes have worked on. We also have some bot operators who might be able to help with bulk importing of pages from other sites. --mikeu talk 20:58, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

@Mu301: Hi, thanks for reaching out! I have a little experience editing and writing for Wikipedia, so I figured this wouldn't be too hard, though I can tell I've forgotten some things.

I have a wiki on an Apple server in my office, but I'm retiring and because of some technical things want to get off that server and onto something more accessible (IT at my school has never really fixed my certificate so it looks safe to browsers). But also, I'm retiring, and this is my research project. It seems like it might be a reasonable Learning Project for Wikiversity, I think probably for other scholars of Victorian social events and periodicals, including grad students. My project is about social events in the Victorian age, mostly in London and mostly as reported on in newspapers and occasionally magazines. Who was there, what they wore, who sat next to whom, who was sleeping with whom, that kind of thing. In particular, I'm using this research to develop a clear understanding of the social networks of a few people, including Albert Edward, Prince of Wales, later King Edward VII of England.

So what I need to do is migrate my Apple Wiki pages, which maybe number around 500?? to Wikiversity, if this is a good site for me to continue my project. Just playing around, I tried recreating my homepage today, but I can't publish it. First because it had links to external sources, which I fixed. But now I can't tell why it won't let me publish, no explanation that I can see. Just "New User Blocked Edit." Except maybe new users shouldn't start by making pages??

So any kind of feedback you've got is totally welcome. --Scogdill (discusscontribs) 22:57, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Welcome! I've added you as a confirmed user. That should help bypass some of the edit filters. But, take it slow. Create a page with just a brief introduction and then add content after it is created. When large pages are created wholesale by new users, it looks like a copyright violation or solicitation for external websites.
As for importing 500 pages, that's certainly something that could be done. I'd like to see a bit more of what you have planned before committing to do the import. Please share more about this project. Thanks! -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 03:04, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
I did some quick research. This doesn't look to be as easy as we might like. The following site has commands that will likely be needed. https://krypted.com/mac-os-x/migrating-data-apple-wiki-server/ . -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 03:13, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Dave, wow, thanks for this!

Honestly, I had expected to do the migration by hand, page by page. That means I will look at every page before it goes up, which is good for quality control anyhow. Slow, but that's all right. I have a little time before I lose the server in my office, maybe a couple of years, but I had a surge of energy once I found Wikiversity, to be honest. :)

I knew I didn't know enough to automate the migration, so I had sort of set that aside as a possibility. Would be great, but isn't necessary, even now, I think. I will look at the link you sent, though, thanks.

Fwiw, the wiki I've been building and want to make more public is here: https://socialvictorians.stcloudstate.edu/wiki/projects/vickypedia/Vickypedia.html

You'll have to tell your browser the site is safe, which it is. The problem with the certificate is that it's self-authenticated, which isn't cricket, and they're right to be suspicious of it. IT at my university must know how to do it right, since the school has lots and lots of webpages on several servers, but the research project of an individual faculty member isn't top priority for them. And they're busy, I do get that. And mostly I have been pretty self-sufficient, just couldn't do this one.

Thanks again, sharon --Scogdill (discusscontribs) 03:21, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Hm, I wrote an earlier reply, thanking you for confirming me as a user and saying a little about my project, but maybe I didn't save it. I think I need to improve my project description so you can see what I'm thinking about and say what you think.

I have been developing a classic website audit of the wiki on the Apple server so I can move things systematically and be sure to get everything. Once I get the home page revised with some explanatory stuff, I think I'll focus on a party I've been researching -- a fancy-dress (or costume) ball hosted by the Duke and Duchess of Devonshire in 1897, the year of Victoria's Diamond Jubilee. Nothing scholarly has been written about this ball except the work I've done. My list is the list of attendees, and most of my work in the last couple of years has been trying to identify the 700 or so people who attended based on newspaper accounts of the time. Many of my pages are about people, but they're not biographical pages like what Wikipedia has (one of which I have written). They're more info I need in order to confirm exactly who using that title was present at the party and what they wore.

The point of this research, other than just an addiction to this kind of detective work, tbh, is to get a clear picture of the social networks of a few people who were at the party, especially Albert Edward, Prince of Wales in 1897 and later Kind Edward VII of England. I'd like to graph the networks at the party. I'd like other people to contribute info about people they know from this time. I'd like others to be able to use this info to graph social networks and talk about how ideas and power moved through them.

Also, I have sundry web and wiki pages developed for my students over the years, but since I'm retiring, I was thinking they were less important. I might change my mind again, though given that my university is not going to be offering f2f classes, so I'll need resources for my students still this semester. The Victorian stuff for them would be associated with this project.

Thank you, again! sharon --Scogdill (discusscontribs) 03:32, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

I think migrating page by page will work better. It would be possible to copy HTML content by bot and generate pages that way, but much of the formatting would be lost. The only thing I would caution you on is to make sure you have a backup copy of the full site in case your institution decides to eliminate it shortly after you retire.
What you describe sounds like a great example of a Wikiversity learning project, and a valuable open resource for people studying Victorian society in the future. Let us know how we can help once you complete your inventory. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 20:19, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Project Title[edit]

Now is probably a good time to select an overall title (landing page) for your project. Social Victorians seems good to me so far, but you might have better ideas. The intent would be that additional pages are then created as subpages of this project. For example, we would move 1897 Fancy Dress Ball to be a subpage of Social Victorians. What project title would be best for your efforts? -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 13:28, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Well, this is a very interesting thought. I have called the larger project Social Victorians so long, I haven't thought about a title for ages.

I have Event Pages on several social events right now, mostly documenting logistics, weather, who was there and whatever was published about them at that event, that kind of thing. Some of these events are very complex and interlinking, involving prior events, sub-events, subsequent events, and related events.

I have several kinds of People Pages, which link to the events and vice versa, collecting info about them from all the events I have evidence they attended as well as genealogical stuff so I can be sure exactly which Viscount Whatever was actually the one who was there. That's a moving thing, of course, as a Viscount Whatever in 1880 might have died so that his son or another relative was Viscount Whatever in 1881. For people for whom no biography has been written, I end up with a lot of info about their lives from the newspapers, and I collect that info on their Person Page as well. Most People pages are actually of families, but occasionally, as with Lady Violet Greville or Miss Muriel Wilson, for example, very important socially and literally completely forgotten today, a Person Page collects that stuff and links to (and is linked to by) the Family Page.

Possibly eventually the most important People Page will be the ones for social networks, which I'm now calling Threads and Knots. Right now I'm thinking organizations like the Golden Dawn belong here.

I have Timeline pages, where I collect random info year by year on things until they get large enough to be moved to an Event Page. For years where I have a lot of info, there's one of these Timeline pages for each year, plus one for each decade that serves as a kind of overview, useful especially when the info is sparse.

Finally, there are a few pages about things from Victorian material and social history, objects like newspapers, bicycles, bunsen burners, typewriters, steel pen points, and so on.

This is really just thinking out loud, and I just now sort of talked myself into staying with Social Victorians. I will keep thinking about this, though.

Thanks very much for noticing about the 1897 Fancy-Dress Ball; I agree, it's a subpage and the space where a lot of other pages will be linked to from as well as a page a lot of other pages link to.

I had developed an eccentric but clear and efficient citation system for these old newspaper articles, but Wikipedia footnotes and reflist will work fine and I'll convert them. Also, I read the Help pages on categories and those Nav helps, but I haven't decided exactly how to make that work for me yet. Just haven't spent enough time on it yet.

Thanks again. I'm really experiencing these conversations as welcoming and helpful. :) sharon --Scogdill (discusscontribs) 20:24, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Sounds good. I've moved 1897 to a subpage of Social Victorians. I also created a redirect from Victorian society, which might be a more common search for those of us who don't know any better. Finally, I removed your contact information from the bottom of the article. If anyone wants to contact you, your username is in the page history, and your email is available through Email this user. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 23:13, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! Now that I see how it looks, I'm noticing how hierarchical my organizational scheme has been. This might make it odd, I will think about that. Another thing I noticed having seen how it works is that the Victorians would have called what we call high society "Society," so Victorian "Society" is exactly what it is in a way. :)

Thanks again, sharon --Scogdill (discusscontribs) 18:23, 18 March 2020 (UTC)