User talk:Jade Knight/Archives/2007

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Research meeting

Hi Michael, just to let you know that the IRC meeting about research will be this Saturday (10th) @ 22:00 UTC (see [1], [2]) in freenode channel #wikiversity (not #wikiversity-en). Details on page on Beta. Hopefully see you there.. Cormaggio beep 00:26, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


Thanks for your clean ups and copyedits of my edits.--Juan 09:17, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

merging Spanish pages

I followed the link for discussion of the proposed merge and found what seemed to me a clear statement by Juan, "I am against the merge". I recently spent some time discussing Spanish: An Introduction with Juan in the #wikiversity-en chat channel and it seemed clear to me that Juan wanted to try doing an introductory Spanish class "his way". I like the idea that we can "run small experiments, tests, see what works, what doesn't, and be prepared to be flexible and change". I think it would make sense to have a central page for "introductory Spanish" where the various learning options are described and learners can then select which option(s) they want to explore further. --JWSchmidt 23:29, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

"several newcomers have complained about not having any idea about where to go or how to sign up. Another disadvantage of multiple redundant courses, apart from being confusing to newcomers, is that they spread out the already limited participation at Wikiversity. Whatever is decided by the Spanish department, something needs to be done about the participant lists". <-- I object to the term "redundant courses". I think the Wikiversity community needs to welcome the prospect that there will be multiple available approaches for learners who are interested in a particular topic. Wikipedia has disambiguation pages for encyclopedia articles, Wikiversity can have "disambiguation" pages when there are multiple "courses" for one topic. Each "course" can have its own "participant list". --JWSchmidt 00:44, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

"If you want those coming to Wikiversity to get disoriented and confused, fine." Wikiversity:Assume Good Faith I think we can provide multiple learning paths and options without anyone getting confused. It will require that we actually take the time to orient new participants so that they understand the available options. --JWSchmidt 13:17, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

"The merge tags which you removed were an attempt to orient newcomers and give them an idea of the mess which the Spanish department is currently in. It was also a way of saying "Hey! Something needs to be done about this!" You removed it but did not fix anything; to me, that seems like a step backwards (what happened to assuming good faith in my placing the merge tag)? I apologize that I'm being curt; frankly, it bothers me that you just nonchalantly stepped in without discussing the issue or contributing anything productive, and removed a tag which I placed there to help people notice a significant issue which needs to be improved, and expect me to see how this is obviously beneficial." <-- If you want to "orient newcomers" then you can make a portal page for the Spanish category, use the Spanish page as an orientation page, make a new page called something like "Orientation for Spanish learners" or make a new template called "Let's figure out how to orient Spanish learners". The merge template was on Spanish: An Introduction for long enough that Juan was able to make clear that the merger idea was not welcome. You are free to continue asking Juan to do the merge, but I think there are better solutions to the "mess" than forcing Juan to do something that he does not want to do. Page merge is for two pages that are truly duplicate efforts. Juan is trying to use a different approach so he has every right to have a page where he can explore his ideas. --JWSchmidt 13:56, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

"You're saying a lot about how Juan feels, but you removed the template, not him. Why don't you let Juan speak and act for himself instead of putting words into his mouth? I also was not forcing him to do anything—having a merge tag does not require anyone to do anything. You are also acting like Wikiversity pages "belong" to people. I was not aware that this was the position Wikiversity had adopted. Could you please point me to the page of the relevant policy so I can educated myself more about it?" <-- I think it is your job to explain why it makes sense to ignore his wishes. Do you really think it is unreasonable for Wikiversity to allow multiple pages that explore multiple approaches to teaching the same material? You had the idea for merging two pages and it was pointed out to you that the two pages were not duplicates and so they should not be merged. Merging those two pages would not benefit Wikiversity. I have suggested several alternatives that could be used to deal with the existing problem. If someone creates a Wikiversity page that adopts a particular pedagogical style then then why not allow that page to exist as an option for Wikiversity participants? Juan explicitly invited others to join in and participate at Spanish: An Introduction either in the role of teacher or learner. I view Spanish: An Introduction as an experiment, an exploration of one approach to introducing people to Spanish. I respect his effort to create a page where Wikiversity participants can explore one particular approach to that topic and I do not see this as an issue of "Wikiversity pages belonging to people". Wikiversity participants who are interested in that teaching/learning method will participate at that page. Wikiversity participants who want to try a different approach can go to another page. If anyone is confused by having several options, then an effort should be made to create a central page where the available options can be explained and links can exist to the individual pages that hold different pedagogical approaches to the same topic. --JWSchmidt 13:37, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

"Can you please show me how Spanish: An Introduction is in a different pedagogically different to Spanish/Spanish One?" <-- I do not see anything like Spanish: An Introduction/Teaching tools, Spanish: An Introduction/About Spanish and Spanish: An Introduction/Pronunciation associated with Spanish/Spanish One. I've seen no mention of someone being available through Spanish/Spanish One for live audio chat. "I am objecting to your stepping in and taking the issue into your own hands" <-- When I saw the merge template I was willing to assume good faith and accept that you might have thought the two pages should be merged. When Juan said that you were wrong, that the two pages were not a duplication, that the pages should not be merged, it was time to take the merge template off of the two pages. Now you seem to have admitted that you were trying to use the merge template for something other than merging the two pages. That means you were mis-using the merge template and it was proper for anyone to remove the mis-used merge templates from those two pages at any time. You should not have tried to use the merge template. "One person is not a consensus." <-- It is not a matter of needed consensus to stop one person from mis-using the merge template. "The way you are presenting the issue makes it appear that you believe that, because he initially created the page, it belongs to him and his word goes." <-- I've explained to you why this is the wrong way to describe what is going on. "there is currently absolutely no indicator on the page that there are multiple introductory Spanish courses floating around" <-- I have previously suggested one sensible way to add this information to the page. Anyone can add this information the the page at any time, just do not try to do so with a merge template. The merge template is the wrong tool to try to use for this purpose. --JWSchmidt 04:02, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

"In what way are the participation lists not a duplication?" <-- I've already explained that both pages can have a participation list for people to use or not use as they wish. "In my opinion, the participation lists should have been merged." <-- Why? "The lessons probably should have" <-- Why can't Wikiversity provide multiple options for learners? "If you removed it thinking I had misused it, you were failing to assume good faith. If you removed it thinking I had used it correctly and was acting in good faith, you were not bothering to find consensus." <-- I've previously explained what I was thinking; Juan explained that the pages were not duplicates and should not be merged and that should have been enough to end the matter. "your behavior, particularly for an administrator, was out of line" <-- I was not acting as an administrator. If you still think that I was wrong to remove the template then why don't you just put it back on the pages? "I don't know what right you feel you have to go in and take away the merge tag (which stated that there was a discussion on the issue of merging, which there indeed was, as you may have noticed if you bothered looking at the talk page) and not replace it with anything OR contribute to discussion." <-- I've already explained why, but for some reason you seem to prefer to ignore my explanation. This is really a huge waste of time. Why not just make it clear to Spanish learners that the two pages exist and they can use either or both pages? --JWSchmidt 14:17, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


Hey Jade Knight, I would like to help you and the department in any which way I can. If I can be of any assistance please feel free to comment on my talk page.DanSto 04:37, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


Just in case...w:Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language might be of use to you. Cheers, --HappyCamper 15:17, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

English as a second language desk

It looks loads better now, thanks to your efforts, but the one thing that still bothers me is the word "learner." Is that standard usage? Are there any good synonyms that you can think of that would work well? All I can think of is "student," which may not be the right connotation.

As for the he or she thing, I hope that singular they becomes standard formal English soon... :-)

Thanks --Falconus 14:18, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Checkuser discussions

Hi Jade Knight. If you can spare the time, your opinion would be greatly appreciated in the discussion currently going on about getting local Checkuser permissions here on Wikiversity. As an active user here, you're probably familiar with the "quiet, behind the scenes" way that we introduce new Custodians, but requesting Checkuser actually requires a "show of support" for the foundation stewards to give us this tool.

If you're not familiar with Checkuser, it's a tool we can use to find the source IP address (and/or alternate accounts) of vandals and others who mean harm to the project. This allows us to both "stop the problem at the source", or in some cases lets us know we can't stop something at the source if an IP is shared by one or more constructive contributors. --SB_Johnny | talk 11:04, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

French Material to feed you

Hello, Greetings from the OLPC project. I have a French professor from Slovenia with an online coursebook of Year One French (as a Foreign Language) that he would like to donate to the OLPC project. Wikibooks or Wikiversity is the best place for this sort of content.

You seem to have structured a great deal of the planning of the French material, would you like to help me structure the wikification? I haven't ever fed any material to wikiversity before, and I'm curious as to the care and handling of such a beast. 21:59, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Whoops, I didn't have a wikiversity account yet (Sign above as well)Sethwoodworth 22:20, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

History Department

Hi there, and thanks for your comment on my talk page.

I actually got involved with WV because of a course in the History Dept., and thus my choice of usernames. I am signed up in one course, but there isn't too much activity, as you said -- and I've gotten a bit caught up on the CompSci side of WV. We do have some interesting things on the boil that might help the History department ... one includes realtime voice discussions. I do have plans to resume my course, and would love to join any discussions. Let me know if the voice stuff would help at all. Historybuff 05:05, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for the delayed response -- I've now commented on both of your referenced talk pages. I hope this helps a bit. I am going to try and return more actively to my history course, and check in on the policy pages from time to time. I think you should think about things that would be helpful to the history department for collaborating -- I touched on some of these in one of my comments, but the Wikiversity:Sandbox Server might help facilitate some real time (or even same day/not real time) interactions. Let me know what you think. Historybuff 21:07, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

hey jade knight, i wanted to launch a course on Haitian History. I've done three years of personal studies on that subject. I've also lived in Haiti for about four years and took a year of Haitian History, and I think I am qualified to instruct such a class. History of Haiti.--Jfrankc08 21:42, 9 November 2008 (UTC)