# User talk:Guy vandegrift/Archive 2

Attempting to Archive User talk:Guy vandegrift

## Suggestions

• Use Preview to go over your changes, to avoid making many edits when one or two would do. Every edit to the wiki adds to the volume of work to be reviewed by others. Go ahead and make more edits if you need to, but use of Preview may help.
• Add an edit summary. I suggest setting your Preferences/Editing to that an opportunity to add a summary is offered if you attempt to save the page without one. That summary may be very brief, but it is vastly helpful to other editors trying to figure out what you have been doing. It's a mark of an experienced editor.
• Do log in for all contributions, and sign all discussion contributions with the four tildes.
• I'd love it if you would look at Cold fusion. This is often considered a physics topic, but the experimental evidence is chemistry, the classic signs of ordinary deuterium fusion are entirely missing from the Fleischmann-Pons experiment, except for helium, which has a widely-confirmed correlation with heat, at roughly the deuterium fusion ratio, experimentally 25 +/- 5 MeV/He-4, per Storms, "Status of cold fusion (2010)", Naturwissenschaften, for a reaction that entirely converts deuterium to helium, by unknown mechanism and pathway. (Example under development, multibody molecular fusion through condensate formation, 2 D2 -> Be-8* -> 2 He-4 + 47.6 MeV, no gammas, but this isn't it, it's not that simple, because the hot alphas would show results that are not observed, the "Hagelstein limit" is about 20 keV for any major product. Takahashi is working on possible Be halo states. Others are working on other theories. All the theories have problems.)
• If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask me. Normally, answering questions on a different page than where they were asked is deprecated, because it becomes very difficult to follow a discussion. The default here is that when one edits a page, it goes on one's Watdhlist and thus responses may be noticed. I also get email notification of all changes to pages on my Watchlist. Respond to this, I'll see it. Ask a question on my Talk page, I'll normally respond there.
• All edits to Wikiversity are visible to everyone and are almost always licensed for free re-use. If you wish to communicate privately with a user, use email. That, of course, only works for users who have email enabled.
• When you copy Wikipedia content, place a "permanent link" to the revision copied. That will suffice for license information. That link may be on the attached Discussion page.
• Enjoy Wikiversity. This is a place where you can build educational resources of whatever depth you desire, incorporating what a professor in a University might include, and including student exercises that can actually be wrong. We correct obvious errors, generally, or frame them so that nothing is misleading. Original research is allowed if attributed (and I can attribute my own research to myself). "Is there something incorrect about [this subpage]?" can be a student exercise!" Students -- or teachers -- may debate topics. Much of this would be completely inappropriate on Wikipedia. --Abd (discusscontribs) 15:00, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

## Your move of [[User:Guy vandegrift/Quantum mechanics timeline]]

• You moved this by simply removing the "User:" space designation. That created a mainspace subpage of Guy vandegrift, Quantum mechanics timeline. I moved that page to eliminate your name from the pagename, I don't think you really intended that, to have a resource on you. I corrected the redirect that your move created to point to the ultimate target (we eliminate double redirects because they don't work)
• Small point: it's traditional to use lower case in titles, generally, only the first letter is capitalized, so I'd have used "Quantum mechanics timeline," but it may not be worth the effort at this point.
• I created a subpage and moved the quiz there, and copy edited the quiz, a little.
• You will want to link the new resource from other resources, I assume. I'd suggest Quantum mechanics. (notice the case used) I removed the deletion request from the new mainspace page, I'm pretty sure you did not intend for that to be deleted! Instead, you may have wanted your own user page to be deleted. You can still request that, even though I've now edited the link. --Abd (discusscontribs) 15:42, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
• I notice overlap of your page with Quantum mechanics/Origin of quantum mechanics. That's a recent page. You might seek to collaborate with that editor. In general I would think of a page on "old" something as being a subpage of "something." Your page is a major contribution; it might be merged with the "Origin" page. "Merge" is a manual process, as you merged your separate Quiz page to the Quantum mechanics timeline page. It means to integrate the content. Good luck. --Abd (discusscontribs) 15:48, 15 November 2013 (UTC).
Thanks. I added a link at the top of my page and left a message on the most recent edit. --Guy vandegrift (discusscontribs) 16:30, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

## copying Wikipedia articles

While you may certainly copy, with proper attribution, content from other WikiMedia Foundation wikis, normally Wikiversity is not for copies of other content, particularly not for encyclopedia articles. The general practice is to link to such other content, where appropriate. If, however, you wish to *modify* Wikipedia content for usage here, then copying the Wikipedia material first can be quite appropriate. Because Wikipedia content can be unstable, you might also link to a permanent version there, instead of to the "present article."

When you do copy Wikipedia content, as you have noticed, wikilinks in the article to local Wikipedia content become redlinks. Unless you intend to create resources here for those page links, the best way to handle this is generally to make them interwiki links. The simply way to do this is to add "w:" at the beginning of the page name, within the brackets. For example, w:Cold fusion. Or if you don't want to display the w:, which can be disconcerting, [[w:Cold fusion|]] will just show the page name, i.e., Cold fusion, but will link to Wikipedia.

The pipe after the pagename then allows specifying the displayed name, and a pipe without any specified name will substitute the actual pagename without the prefix.

As a subject matter expert, you are highly welcome on Wikiversity, and it is possible here, under certain circumstances, for you to effectively own pages. (Just as particular professors "own" the actual courses they present, nobody stands there and demands sources and proof during the lecture! At least not normally!) We do have an overall neutrality policy, but the use of subpages allows handling disputes that may arise. We have other physics content and your participation in improving all these resources is very welcome. I do urge you to think about overall structure, so that useful pages are linked from Topic and School pages and other resources.

There is no clear guide to how to structure pages; eventually, we'll have this. Wikiversity is still in a rather primitive state, because of the chaos that has characterized some of its history. But structure is arising, out of precedent, anyway. (The preceding unsigned comment was added by Abd (talkcontribs) )

Thanks, Abd, you resolved two of my concerns, and I resolved the third myself:
1. I do need to heavily edit everything I "copy" so there is no need to talk about linking. Wikipedia must be heavily edited for educational purposes. For example compare the incredibly long timeline of quantum mechanics timeline on Wikipedia to to this heavily edited timeline.
2. I still need to talk to the people on the wikibook Physics with Calculus about merging with Physics Equations II, but there is no rush. At the moment, one of my edits from 15 Nov. 2013 on quantum mechanics timeline on Wikipedia are still pending.
3. I am happy with my signature --guyvan52 (discusscontribs) 14:32, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

## Wikibooks

When will you go on Wikibooks, starting the 2nd Book; Ozone Layer :) --goldenburg111 (talk) 21:14, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

good question. Physics Equations II is a BIG project, perhaps 20% complete. Maybe this summer?--guyvan52 (discusscontribs) 21:21, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
This summer your going to Wikibooks? --goldenburg111 (talk) 21:23, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
It's a textbook, so I see no reason to put it out there unfinished. There is aready a book on exactly the same subject on Wikibooks that is getting zero attention. --guyvan52 (discusscontribs) 21:29, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

At the moment I have decided to archive some of this page. --guyvan52 (discusscontribs) 21:30, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

No problem! Just make sure you don't make any obvious errors, even though people tend to make obvious and intentional errors, just saying! --goldenburg111 (talk) 21:32, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Well I archived it but didn't do much on the archive navigation options.--guyvan52 (discusscontribs) 21:45, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

## Messed up another move on Wikiversity

I mismanaged a move with Physics Equations II, but am willing and able to do it by creating all the pages and subpages manually and using copy/paste. (Fortunately there aren't too many subpages). I will wait 24 hours in case somebody wants to intervene. Based on what I see on the School of Physics and Astronomy, here is my understanding of the roles of the various "diretories" (for want of a better word):

1. https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Name_of_a_project

I understand this to be where projects and learning resources belong, even if they are not quite finished. Given the complexities of moving projects, it seems this is the best place to begin any project. Abandoned projects can be deleted by the author or moved into the following "User:User_name" category:

2. https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/User:User_name/Name_of_a_project

This is my "messing around" space, not private, but essentially mine. I could, for example, move a project here if I don't like it but am not ready to discard it.

3. https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/User_name/Name_of_a_project

There seems to no purpose for this heading. I accidentally put a few things here here with my username and will delete. (By the way, if I were organizing Wikiversity, this would be the dominant file structure; everybody takes care of what is under his/her name, and the name goes off only after X number of people have contributed, regardless of how good or how bad the project is.)

4. https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Topic:/Name_of_a_project

The Wikiversity School of Physics and Astronomy seems to use these for overviews and links to resources, but some projects (or learning resources) seem to have this name. I won't worry about that. The school's "home page" is rather disorganized and that leaves a bad impression, but if you go deep you find many amazing projects. I have noticed on the internet that lists of links to other pages don't accomplish much -- better to just let Google Search do the organizing --guyvan52 (discusscontribs) 12:30, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Great, Guy. I'll take a look. Lots of work is done here directly in mainspace, i.e., (1). You can create stubs and quite incomplete resources in mainspace, or create redlinks if you want to create the resource later, or to suggest someone else create it. At the top level in mainspace, everyone owns the page, so to speak. That is, if people want to cover the same material, perhaps with different points of view, it can be handled by having a mainspace page that links to different "sections." See Landmark Education for an example, a work in progress.
(2) You can work on pages in your user space, and they will generally be left alone, unless someone has a problem with possible copyright violation or violation of site policy. Unlikely with your topics. If you don't like an edit someone else makes in your user space, revert it! Even there, though, avoid revert warring (i.e., repeated reversions). Instead, ask for help. The need for such help should be rare.
(3) Yes. That's an error. That creates a page in mainspace with your name, as if we are studying you. If we want, we could have a page name Richard P. Feynman. Hmm.... we have a user, User:Richard P. Feynman. That's me, having some fun. Fun is okay on Wikiversity, even if the muggles get a bit upset. However, you could create or edit a resource on, say, Quantum mechanics and then link to a subpage as your section of that course, which you could effectively own, as long as others don't object (if they do object, the community will sort it). I.e, Quantum mechanics/Guy vandegrift. I wouldn't do this unless editing the main resource became a problem because of possible conflict with other users. I.e., if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I understand your concept, but that would then require a process to determine when to remove the name. It's not the "wiki way."
(4) Lots of irregular stuff has been done. Yes, the apparent usage of the Topic namespace is for organizing resources by topic. As to lists of external links, those would be links that page creators or maintainers think useful. They should ordinarily not attempt to be complete but raw lists, or they would be, indeed, no better than Google. It's possible, though, to create a subpage for links, and to review each link there, to guide students. --Abd (discusscontribs) 13:06, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
As to the move, first consider how you ultimately want these pages presented. My first thought was that a mainspace title like Physics equations II is not appropriate, because that is not a general name. The "II" refers, apparently, to your own organization of the topic. Thinking about it, Physics equations seems to be the general topic. I and II can then be subpages, i.e,. Physics equations/I and Physics equations/II. Then each of these may have subpages, as with Physics equations/II/Vector calculus.
However, a better alternative would be to have physics courses, with I and II as level designations. This could be Physics I and Physics II, corresponding to common course names in universities. These pages would be linked from Topic and/or School pages. So that vector calculus page would become Physics II/Equations/Vector calculus.
Now, how to get there. If you have subpages organized in your user space, a custodian can make a page move that includes all subpages. These can be messy if a mistake is made. I once moved a page that involved maybe a hundred subpages, and got it wrong. Took me hours to clean it up, these moves can't just be "undone." The move can be done by a custodian without the creation of redirects. So I suggest that you get everything in order in your user space and then request help to move it. This will be a lot less work for a custodian. I will undo your erroneous page move. --Abd (discusscontribs) 13:19, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Ooops! I can't undo that move. I did replace the redirect with your original content, but that leaves the page history in the wrong place, and it would look like I was the author of that content. Bad Idea. I'll request a custodian fix this. When you are settled on the page name system, you can request a custodian make the move en masse. My opinion is that your Physics equations II would become Physics II/Equations. All subpage links should then work immediately and Physics II could be created. By the way, I have no idea what you mean by "brown" links. Maybe I've missed something. --Abd (discusscontribs) 13:37, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Brown links are red links that have already been hit. guyvan52 (discusscontribs) 13:44, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
That is browser-specific. The links are redlinks, but may be displayed differently because browsers may -- or may not -- distinguish links that have been followed from those that have not. For our purposes here, they are all redlinks, i.e., links where no target page exists. A browser might display them in another color, by the way. My setup does turn the red a little brown, but it still looks red to me. Looks like the move has been undone by a custodian. That was fast!
I see that you requested the move to Physics equations. If you are now moving into collaboration, that was premature. Please complete discussions before taking an action that may be difficult to undo! I raised issues about the page name and suggested a target. You went ahead with an idea that was not discussed. Please don't do that! However, it's done, so please explain what your intentions are. Will you incorporate Physics I material into Physics equations? --Abd (discusscontribs) 14:07, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Physics equations is looking great! (To answer my own question above, yes, you now have I and II on the same page.) --Abd (discusscontribs) 00:48, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

## Deletion Requests

Everyone has their own style of working. When you're new to Wikiversity, there's a lot of trial and error before you find a style that is both consistent with other resources available in your field and consistent with what you want to develop for your target audience. If that means creating and deleting many pages, then it is what it is.

Eventually you're likely to get to a point where you can have just a few permanent test pages of your own to experiment with, make notes on, etc., and the rest will be relatively stable content pages. But it's much better for you to be productive and request deletions occasionally than it is for you to hold back on your creativity because you're worried about the deletions.

Do note that in general there may not be anyone monitoring your talk page except you. When you want / need assistance or ideas from someone else, either post at the Wikiversity:Colloquium, request custodian action, or post on one of our talk pages. Thanks!

Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 21:01, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

## CC-BY-NC-SA

Unfortunately, CC-BY-NC-SA is more restrictive than Wikiversity's CC-BY-SA license. See Wikiversity:Non-Commercial_Tag_Issues. You can link to the content, but you can't post it here. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 16:49, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

I haven't read the difference between CC-BY-SA 2.5 and 3.0, but I assume they would be compatible. The release at http://www.anselm.edu/internet/physics/cbphysics/howtoAttribute.html seems quite clear that the content can be used with attribution. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 19:57, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Can't go wrong by using some information, without copying it, then attributing them for that information. If the readers want more details, they can visit their site. You can use their ideas, just not their words (no paraphrasing), as long as you attribute them. It would benefit them to bring people to their material, and it would benefit your resource too. - Sidelight12 Talk 00:27, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

## Physics equations

Hi Guy vandegrift! Just telling you whenever you create a page with the "prefix": "Physics equation/" or if you create a page related to Physics equation, add a category named Physics equations :) --goldenburg111 (talk) 17:48, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! I was entirely of this feature; having a list of all my pages is useful.--guyvan52 (discusscontribs) 18:12, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
I like the way Physics equations is looking. Great work, Guy. When you respond to a message, start a new line and perhaps use indents to set your message off. I added this to your comment above, otherwise it was merging with Goldenburg's message. You can also use asterisks to place a bullet, which can be nice for setting messages apart. Or you can use a blank line between the comments. --Abd (discusscontribs) 00:45, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

## Semi-Retiring

Very sorry Guy vandegrift, I have decided to Semi Retire (that means I am not going to be editing a lot) because I am more active at Meta-Wiki. Sorry for retiring, but I have a lot of work to do at the wiki there. You may talk to me there. :( Bye --goldenburg111 (talk) 21:36, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

## Most Active User - November 2013

 The Original Barnstar Most Active User - November 2013

Keep up the good work! -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 15:49, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

## General Astronomy

Response is at User_talk:Dave Braunschweig. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 23:14, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

## Links and requests

To make a link to Wikipedia use [[w:page name|]] the | is optional to remove the "w:" from view. Typing anything after the | will also show the name to be displayed. {{lw|pagename}} will conditionally make the link to Wikipedia, unless a Wikiversity link exists. Wikipedia and Wikiversity links are different shades of blue. - Sidelight12 Talk 14:43, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

You can make requests for imports, mass movement a page and all of its subpages, or other requests on the proper Wikiversity: pages. Copying and pasting the page, then asking for a history import or leaving a note on the talk-page is also an option. - Sidelight12 Talk 14:52, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, I didn't know the {{lw|pagename}} option. I plan to do at least one more careful edit of the entire Physics equations and will work on all those redlinks in the near future. --guyvan52 (discusscontribs) 17:01, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

## Archives

See Template:Archive box or my talk page for one example of how to link to an Archive page. There are certainly other options. But for any internal links, you should use something like User talk:Guy vandegrift/Archive 1 rather than a full external html link. -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 17:34, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

more things I didn't know. Thanks --guyvan52 (discusscontribs) 17:39, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

## Discussion

Hello Guy vandegrift! I would like to invite you to this discussion ----> https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/User_talk:Dave_Braunschweig#Adminship --goldenburg111 (talk) 16:41, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

## Hey

How are you? --goldenburg111 (talk) 21:03, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

doing well. What's up with you?--guyvan52 (discusscontribs) 22:50, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
Fantastic, I just got an "early report" about custodianship for me. How's life with you? --goldenburg111 (talk) 22:53, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
Really busy with final exams. Trying to find an effecient way to write technical reports and think wikis need to use a different style for physics and math. Traditional books use equation nubbers, but I think that is a bad way for wikis. So I am inventing my one style. Instead of an equation number after the equation, I propose that wikis us a sentence before. Let me illustrate this with an example:

In traditional textbooks, equations are introduced with a sentence before, such as saying that the equation for the magnetic field is,

${\displaystyle {\vec {B}}={\frac {\mu _{0}}{4\pi }}\int _{C}{\frac {I\left(\mathrm {d} {\vec {\ell }}\times {\hat {r}}\right)}{\left|{\vec {r}}\,\right|^{2}}}}$     (3)

where , B is the magnetic field and I is the current. Note the practice of following the equation with words to define the symbols. On a wiki, I think we should instead precede equation with one sentence that describes the variables BEFORE the equation is presented. Moreover, I suggest that the equation should follow on the same line. So instead, we write like this:

The magnetic field due to a current is: ${\displaystyle {\vec {B}}={\frac {\mu _{0}}{4\pi }}\int _{C}{\frac {I\left(\mathrm {d} {\vec {\ell }}\times {\hat {r}}\right)}{\left|{\vec {r}}\,\right|^{2}}}}$

Books need equation numbers in order to reference them in the future. With a wiki, we can attempt to write the page in sections and make a section whenever an equation needs to be referenced.

As a future custodian, what do you think of this idea? guyvan52 (discusscontribs) 23:08, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Very helpful, you are simply helping the wiki with your knowledge. Wikiversity is made for users who are still in their "education years". --goldenburg111 (talk) 23:15, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

So is there an online forum on Wikiversity where such style issues can be proposed and discussed?guyvan52 (discusscontribs) 23:26, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Sure, check out the Colloquiom. --goldenburg111 (talk) 23:31, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
Guy, can you please see User:Goldenburg111/Custodianship Folder? --goldenburg111 (talk) 00:47, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
Fascinating guyvan52 (discusscontribs) 01:01, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

## Guy vandergrift

I just came across an article in main space at Guy vandegrift. Do you still need this, or can the content be moved to your user page? -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 04:30, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for showing it to me. I will speedy delete it right now.--guyvan52 (discusscontribs) 12:34, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

## Importing History

Unfortunately, importing history from Wikipedia is something only custodians can do. See Wikiversity:Import. However, if and when I am a full custodian, I'd be happy to mentor you if you're interested in being a Wikiversity custodian yourself.

In the mean time, just use the Import page to indicate whatever pages you want imported, or drop a note under Request Custodian Action, or even on my talk page. Thanks! -- Dave Braunschweig (discusscontribs) 16:30, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Is this the "import page"?:https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Import --guyvan52 (discusscontribs) 18:41, 13 March 2014 (UTC)