Atlantis/Location Hypotheses

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U.S. Navy hydrographic map
Map of the Azores
AYool topography 15min.png

The relatively new field of Climate Change Science contributes significantly to this Atlantis location hypothesis.[1] 97% of scientists agree that Climate Change is real and it is happening.[2] In addition, The National Geographic Society web site Doggerland -- The Europe That Was [3] adds evidence to the fact that ocean levels and coastlines are NOT stable with time, and significant changes have occurred before written history that have relegated these facts to the oral tradition of mankind. Thus, although not yet completely supported by today's science, oral traditions like the one called "Atlantis" are lying in wait for astute researchers to uncover, and add to historical fact just like the legend of Troy and the Hellenic Wars.

Unlike the speculation regarding possible Atlantis locations on Wikipedia derived from careful work in archaeological ruins still above water today, this location hypothesis depends upon the emerging field of climate change which fits Plato's timeline stated in his writings. It is further supported by recently developed geologic imaging methods using seismic imaging models that are called seismic tomography. These new methods use the seismic waves from earthquakes and computerized imaging algorithms used in modern medicine to construct three dimensional imaging. It is definitely cutting edge science derived from Computerized Axial Tomography[4].

Original research supporting the location of Atlantis in the Azores was published by Pierre Termier (1859-1930)[5]. The original lecture was delivered to the Oceanographic Institute of Paris on Nov. 30,1912. It was published in the Annals of the Smithsonian Institution in 1915 and printed in 1916[6] It was refuted several times by two other scientists making the claim that Plato made an error in the date and location or outright fabricated the whole story. Termier's English version may be read in a translation by Jason Colivito[7] The refutation by Charles Schubert claimed that the Azores Islands had formed by volcanic eruptions and denies that Atlantis or any large island ever existed in the Azores.[8] The refutation by Edwin Swift Balch flatly states that the geologic evidence of a large island in the middle of the Atlantic may be quite accurate but he places the time period for this island in the Eocene, the Miocene, or perhaps the Pliocene epochs, according to the uncertainty of professional geologists of the time period of his refutation in 1917. His admission in his refutation places the existence of the Atlantic island at no earlier than 500,000 years before present. It may be found in the 14th paragraph of the following reference[9]. Much progress in the field of geology has been made since 1917, 100 years ago. It is appropriate to revisit this subject using the tools of today's geologists instead of "traditionally" dismissing it as not factual. This is especially true since the descriptions of Plato, the end of the most recent ice age, climate change science and the discovery of the existence of what is being termed "Supervolcanoes" all over the world seems to be fitting together to help to supply scientific evidence to Plato's story.

It was concluded in Wikipedia Atlantis Location Hypothesis[10] that the geological evidence did not exist to prove that Atlantis could have existed on or about the Azores Plateau or Azores Archipelago. It is also stated that there was no (known) geological mechanisms that could have caused the sinking or the raising of the area in the Azores Archipelago at that intersection with the Mid Atlantic Rift ignoring climate change science and the most recent ice age. If the landmass underwater at the Atlantic Rift were above the ocean surface it is clear from the images on the left that the warmth of the gulf stream that is responsible for the moderate climate in the northern latitudes of the Atlantic would be blocked. This would result in a climate that is much colder since the gulf stream would be turned back upon itself and returned back to the equator.

It is a fact that modern history has been recorded in the current glacial period and that the ocean levels have not significantly changed during this time. Nevertheless, research by the National Science Foundation's Paleoclimate Program, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Paleoclimatology and Polar Programs, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration, Gary Comer Foundation, the Ohio State University's Climate, Water and Carbon Program and Byrd Polar Research Center has concluded that global warming presents a clear and present danger to humanity worldwide [11].

Regardless of the absence of documentation of primitive civilizations in the earlier ages of man by popular archaeology, much work has been done and is being done to chart the ages of man that is not recorded as a historical record[12]. It is the opposition to the realization that mankind has existed for well over a million years that drives the resistance to the acceptance of written records of Atlantis handed down from Plato that places the end of Atlantis in the Atlantic approximately 12,000 years ago around the area of the Azores archipelago. Geologists claim that a huge lake drained in South America between 13,000 and 8,000 years ago as a result of end of the last Ice Age. The fresh water from this lake was enough to desalinize the Pacific Ocean and change Ocean currents[13].

Between 13,000 and 15,000 years ago Lake Missoula caused massive flooding numerous times dumping its contents of meltwater into the Columbia river basin. The cycles of refilling and draining from ice dam failure took an average of 55 years and occurred many times during the 2,000 year period of the ending of the last Ice Age in North America[14]. Recent research suggests that many occurrences of these "Outburst Floods" were prevalent throughout the world[15]

Lake Agassiz in North America was larger and contained more fresh water than the whole Great Lakes system combined. When a Glacial ice dam failed this huge lake drained into the Atlantic basin. This happened several times between 8,000 to 13,000 years ago causing a rise in global sea levels[16]. Recent research suggests that Great Britain and other areas around the North Sea and English Channel were connected by dry land to Europe up until until approximately the time period given by Plato for the demise of Atlantis[17]. Locating Atlantis in the Azores as Plato said has been denied in information sources such as Wikipedia[18] despite the overwhelming evidence that rising waters after the most recent Glacier Age has caused sea level rise and dry land has disappeared and coastlines have changed all over the world. As presented, sometimes these changes came slowly and other times they came very rapidly as the sinking of Atlantis was described by Plato. Atlantis, it is being hypothesized, was the victim of such flooding after succumbing to a supervolcanic eruption. In addition, slowly, as the pressure of the weight of miles of ice over North America was removed, the continent of North America has slowly rose as the Atlantic basins have slowly deepened.

Wikipedia gives a list of mass extinctions 11,000 years ago in North Anerica[19]

There is evidence of Icebergs off the coast of Florida at the end of the last Ice Age owing to these so-called meltwater pulses shutting down the Gulf Stream which carries warmth to the North Atlantic[20].

The evidence cited in the provided references for climate change and flooding at the end of the last Glacier Age has become a political controversy, not to mention a religious controversy in society today[21].

Similar episodes of new research did not stay mere hypotheses for long. Included are things that are widely accepted now and form the foundations of our modern science and support indispensable technology we use every day[22]. Man's habits have changed little. Then, as today, ancient man loved to live near the ocean and even fresh bodies of water. Accepted research now indicates that the generations of man existed in lands now submerged on continental shelves all around the world. The oral tradition created so-called "myths" that when written down tell stories. One of these stories is the story of Atlantis. These lost civilizations are only now being discovered[23]. There is much evidence of such civilizations rising and falling along with changing coastlines all over the world. I will present those stories as I find them hunting for Atlantis using the methodologies of science, some of which are still emerging into acceptance. Small wonder that individuals have believed that they have found evidence of Atlantis locations throughout the world[24]. If climate change occurred in the past, it was surely accompanied by significant sea level change as glaciers and polar ice caps froze and thawed along with glaciers from Earth's many known periods of glaciation cycles. There are no volcanoes in Florida. Neither are there any mantle plumes. However, one need only to take Florida as an example of sea level rise and fall due to glaciation. Florida was much wider and larger at the end of the last ice age[25]. It had twice the land area and the climate was cooler and drier[26]. A significant number of species of animals went extinct approximately 11,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age in North America[27]. The changing shoreline of Florida is a well-documented fact[28][29].

The research presented here shows that two mantle plumes could exist in the Azores archipelago area or that lithosphere is melting and combining with the updwelling magma from a single mantle plume.[30][31][32]. It will show that the area is constantly subjected to earthquakes on the sea floor. This area is constantly monitored and the number, strength and location of these earthquakes are being recorded. Generally, such activity is associated with magma in a deep caldera moving about. It shows similarities to the supervolcano at Yellowstone National Park in Wyoming, USA. Scientists with open minds can then decide using this evidence about the coincidence of Plato stating that Atlantis sank in this area and the existence of the Mid Atlantic Rift, the conjunction or intersection of 3 tectonic plates and the 2 mantle plumes present here. The area has enough geological structures that are active enough even today to cause the kind of tragedy that is described as Atlantis in the writings of antiquity. Archaeological evidence of Atlantis here, if it exists, is now on the floor of the Atlantic and impossible to excavate, leaving us only shallow submerged areas on the continental shelves of the world to explore.

Understanding underwater volcanic eruptions[33] is essential to understanding the demise of Atlantis in the Azores. Then, understanding how the unique structures in and around the Azores Plateau when it was the island of Atlantis allows the understanding of how this volcanic super-eruption caused the plateau to become immersed. After the Gulf stream was no longer turned back toward the equator, it bathed the northern parts of the Atlantic basin. Remember, we are describing a supervolcanic eruption which was at least a VEI 8, and probably much larger. After the initial eruption, which began as a deep water eruption[34], which changed the relationship of the mid-Atlantic Rift and the intersection of the 3 tectonic plates, causing the Azores Plateau to seperate from the African plate allowing this section of continental lithospere to sink into the caldera that was supplying eruptive magma to the supereruption. The island sank causing the initial flooding. The eruption then evolved into a shallow eruption[35], causing disruption of the atmosphere, but not atrue Plinian eruption. More steam was released which caused immediate disruptions in world weather patterns. The solids erupting from the supervolcanic eruption remained in the water as floating pumice causing the statement in Plato's Timaeus[36], "... the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island..."

Evidence exists of remnants of a large volcanic structure remnant (caldera system) of undetermined size in the Azores plateau beneath the Terceira rift in the Azores [37].

This discussion is about whether Atlantis existed and the possible location of Atlantis in the Azores. 10,000 to 12,000 years BC water levels were lower than they were today[38]. The legend of Atlantis holds that Atlantis was in existence around 9600 B.C. before it was claimed that it sank into the sea. Ancient Greece was not in existence around this time, so accounts of Greece interacting with Atlantis may be fictional, but based on other accounts. The Anthropocene Epoch [39] is described as the period from 14,000 years before present (BP) to 1945 A.D. For the purposes of describing the demise of Atlantis it could be considered that Atlantis sank at approximately the beginning of this epoch. However, it could be problematic attempting to fix the exact chronological period when Atlantis Sank. Recent research into glacier melting related to climate change suggests that the rate of ocean rise is not a precisely predictable nor is it a steady event[40]. Rather, the flooding from glacier melt comes in pulses. So, in addition to the volcanic activity of a supervolcanic eruption, there was this flooding event that could possibly be not directly related to the volcanic activity, but yet affected by it. The melting of the glaciers had worldwide lowland flooding consequences. Hence, as today, with 40% of the world's population living on land near an ocean[41], a disaster would arise if the sea level changed. The land near the world's seas and oceans became submerged from the glacier melt, so the majority of the population of the world was displaced and reduced to refugee status, in some cases fleeing a so-called "pulse" of flooding. Such a "pulse" would cause mass causalities, disease, starvation, and social instability that would cause conflict. However, given the location of the Azores, the predisposition of volcanic eruptions to have accompanying earthquakes and earthquakes to cause tsunamis, the precise combination and sequencing of events that caused the Azores plateau to sink as well as the human population to flee for their lives in what vessels were available, could be problematic. In such dire circumstances high death tolls and the disruption of civilizations as they existed at that time were a certainty. We may be seeing the beginnings of sea level rise today.[42]

The map on the upper left is a bathymetric or hydrographic map of the ocean floor of the North Atlantic as it exists today. This map is constructed from U.S. Navy data. It is obvious that the floor of the Atlantic is elevated along the Mid Atlantic Rift from Iceland to well South of the Azores. In addition, it is easy to see the Azores Plateau and the area surrounding it. If you click on it you can see a larger more detailed version of the map. On the larger version you can make out the locations of interest to you. Remember, this is a under water depth map, and it is color coded by depth. The map directly under the hydrographic map is a map of the entire Azores Archipelago. You may click your mouse on any or all of these maps to see a larger version.

It is apparent that the Azores plateau is still significantly elevated from the ocean floor or the Abyssal Plane to the East and to the West of the MAR. It is now under water. Evidence exists that it was not completely under water during the last glaciation[43]. Evidence exists that it has had a climate change[44]. That is what this discussion is about. In addition, recent research and knowledge accumulated about volcanic eruption both on the floor of the oceans and on land has raised suspicions that demand re-examination of the so-called Atlantis Myth. Might it have the same existence as the fabled city of Troy before the actual site was discovered? Respect for the oral traditions of early man, known geology, recent research and revelations in volcanology regarding supervolcanoes make re-examination of facts practical. However, prediction and followup of supervolcanic eruptions is problematic.[45] The size of under water caldera systems under the ocean floor is hard to accurately construct from P wave data acquisition because of being under water and the Azores Plateau thickness.[46] Click on the back arrow to get back to this page. Read about the caldera at the following website.

M. Ewing wrote that beach sand from prehistoric times was brought up in two deep sea cores, one from 3 km and the other from 5.5 km. These two cores came from an area over 1000 km from the coast on the Mid-Atlantic-Ridge. There were two layers in one core of sand which dated according to sedimentation rates at 20,000 to 100,000 years and in the other at 225,000 to 325,000 years[47].

R.W.Kobe found numerous diatoms from freshwater on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge from several cores that were taken over 900 km distance from the coast of Equatorial West Africa. He claimed that this was evidence that the area in question was islands 10 – 12,000 years ago. The diatoms that he found he said were deposited as sediment in fresh water lakes which were later inundated under 3km of sea water. He states that this was a more plausible explanation than the claim that turbidity currents had moved the diatoms 930 km along the sea bottom and then lifted them up over 1000 km and deposited them on a the top of a submerged hill [48].

B.C. Heezen et. al. reports that at 37 degrees North the Atlantis seamount located on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is flat topped at a depth of around 180 fathoms and has a current-rippled sand and or cobbles. Around a ton of limestone cobbles were brought up from the summit a sample of which gave a radio-carbon date of 12,000+/- 900 years. B.C. Heezen and colleagues states that that the limestone was lithified in a location above the water and that his is evidence that the seamount had once been an island but was submerged in the last 12,000 years [49]

There is much evidence of of a warming period beginning at the end of the last glacier age 12,000 years ago at the Pleistocene–Holocene boundary[50]. Or, approximately 2,000 years from the beginning of the Anthropocene epoch. This climate change is evidenced by a worldwide change in the character of deep-sea sedimentation, a marine transgression evidenced by radio-carbon dating, deep sea cores that reveal color changes, changes in foraminiferans that are indicative of changes in plankton[51] and by migration of foraminiferans 1000 to 3000 km toward the poles seeking cooler waters. In the case of mid-latitude ice sheets once melting starts, the ice disappears at a tremendous rate. The melt rate reached a maximum about 8000 bp, liberating 18 trillion (18 × 1012) metric tons of meltwater annually. This corresponds to a rise in sea level of five centimetres per year. Throughout this pre-history period the geologic record reveals many cyclic rise and fall cycles in ocean levels throughout the world[52].

Anthropocene Epoch[edit]

The most interesting thing about the Anthropocene Epoch is that it fits approximately with Plato's description of the rise of multiple settlements of humanity around the world after the time he fixes the demise of Atlantis. It also fits approximately with the end of the last ice age in North America and around the world[53].

Further to the Azores hypothesis, here are a couple more supporting points:[edit]

The following contribution was added to the talk page quite some time ago. It discusses the glaciation particulars of the North Atlantic, North America and Northern Europe during the last period of glaciation prior to 10 - 12 thousand years ago. This is the epoch when Atlantis is being postulated to have existed in the mid-Atlantic by Plato's writings.

Thanks, Entrepic, for your contribution. Sorry it took me so long to find it.

  1. The weight of the glaciers on the continents. Consider the glacial mass of a 2-4 km cap of ice on top of Canada, the Great Lakes and New England regions of the US, Northern Europe, Northern Russia, and Northwest Siberia. This is equivalent to an ocean on top of the northern continents. Additional glacial weight would have been exerted on the southern Andes, and on mountains throughout the world. Here are a couple maps of the northern hemisphere during the Last Glacial Maximum circa 22,000 YA, and the relevant Wikipedia page:
  2. Please note the glaciation was focused on the North Atlantic / North Sea region. This indicates that something was disrupting the Gulf Stream. Here's a couple maps of the stream-flow, and the relevant Wikipedia page:
  3. Commons:File:Golfstream.jpg

This map from Wikipedia clearly illustrates the relationship between the Azores Plateau and the Gulf stream. Please note that if the Azores Plateau were above the surface of the North Atlantic that it would at least partially obstruct the Gulf Stream. The Gulf Stream would then not reach the shoreline of Western Europe as it does today. That would affect the climate and it would be much colder in that area of the world.

Without the warm waters of the Caribbean reaching the Northern Atlantic, Europe would freeze, and the flow of frigid waters from the Labrador Sea would freeze the Atlantic coast of North America as far south as New York. Iceland is a large igneous province created by a plume (essentially a super-volcano) not a continental fragment, therefore if it was covered in a glacier several kilometres thick, it should sink under the weight. Magmatic displacement from both Iceland, and the continents to the east and west of the North Atlantic would have placed stress on the Mid-Atlantic Rise (MAR), as well as other volcanically active areas. Consider the information in the following article:

While the article is about super-volcanoes in general, the information is relevant to the MAR. If molten rock accumulated under the MAR its buoyancy would simply lift the MAR, as the region only has water above it, which is both lighter than continental rock, and easily displaced.

An ice bridge existed during the most recent glaciation that connected Northern Europe and North America.[54]

Entripic's Conclusion: Atlantis' rising and falling could be the cause of the repeated glaciations of the last few million years.

Entrepic (discuss • contribs) 09:40, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Adding to Entrepic's post, there is a lot of recent research into the melting of glaciers

The converse statement of Entrepic's Conclusion is, "The repeated glaciations of the last few million years could be the cause of Atlantis' rising and falling."

Could the converse statement be true?

It is possible that what remained of Atlantis' culture and sea port settlements after Atlantis sank from a supervolcanic eruption was flooded also by glacier melt which resulted from the Gulf Stream taking a more northerly path. It turns out that glaciers can melt very rapidly after a "Tipping Point" is reached.

To understand this concept, watch the video...

RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 18:04, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs)Disclaimer; Stop before you continue. Realize that as far as science is concerned, we only have evidence, not proof. This evidence is enough to construct a hypothesis, but we have a long way to go to have a theory. That is why this is being called fringe science. This hypothesis exists on the fringes of what we can construct with the scientific research that exists today. I recently uncovered a manuscript from Yale University on line that presented the Azores Islands as remnants of Atlantis.[55] More modern research seems to push this observation aside but it is historic, significant and from the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences presented February 15, 1917. The location of the Azores as the remnants of Atlantis is not a new scientific idea. It is an old one. Today with the advent of what is being termed a "Supervolcano" we how have a plausible explanation of Plato's description of Atlantis that places Atlantis and the disaster that claimed it in a real time and place. This Atlantic location of Atlantis in the Azores may never rise to the level of proof enough to satisfy every skeptic. However, you cannot pick and choose which part of Plato's writings you accept and which parts you do not accept. Either it is history or it is not. Plato may have embellished it some, but from the geography and location, it is unlikely he embellished the location because of the geology part that has only recently become known to science, especially in the light of recent scientific research that shows the potential in the Azores for significant catastrophic geologic activity. If Atlantis did exist, it likely existed when Plato said it did and where he said that it did. Otherwise, you must consider if you may be using this legend for your own gain.RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs)

Applications of Alferd Wegener's Theory of Continental Drift[edit]

The most formidable problem with Atlantis' sinking into the Atlantic Ocean is not the hypothesizing of how it might occur as described by Plato as a historian, but instead it is the inflexibility of mind of the typical scientists and their societies and organizations who cling so tenaciously to structures of science that have been accepted through years of pinning research down inflexibly to existing theories. This forces patterns and structures that pits one theory against another leaving no room for compromise until the evidence is overwhelming, crushing a theory with a revolution of thought that may only have needed adjusted to be properly appreciated and understood. This delays the progress of humanity, but it is unavoidable because of the human condition. This does seem to be a part of the human condition because the same thing occurs in all of mankind's efforts, be they scientific, social, traditional or simply customary behaviors within a society. This is all well and good in some of mankind's efforts, for example, in folklore, but I digress.

When this occurs in science the traditionalists look to new ideas as a threat rather than the small cracking of a facade that will reveal a universal truth when the upper crusts break away revealing the foundations that support them. This tends to stymie and stifle scientific revolutions until they grow strong enough to upend tradition and push it to the wayside. Theoretical proof through mathematics and/or logic are not enough proof for the traditionalists to give up their long-held ideas. The history of science is littered with the names of scientists who like the prophets of religion were never appreciated in their own lifetimes. Immanuel Velikovsky[56], Alferd Wegener[57] and yes, even Albert Einstein[58] to a certain degree encountered the traditionalists who never never properly appreciated not the scientist, but the science. Scientific ideas of scientists such as Charles Darwin still are attacked but true science can always stand on its own despite constant challenge and opposition[59]. Eventually, science will prevail over suppression, also.

You see, scientists are never too concerned with the acceptance of their ideas. They seek the ideas themselves, leaving a legacy for others to build upon, just as they have stood upon previous ideas and examples to formulate their own hypotheses. The scientist just lumbers on painting the world as he sees it like some artistic VanGogh, proudly painting their vision of the world for all to see, listening, studying, easily lending an ear, but almost never getting one in return.[60] --- to be continued, or just go and read this site a few times...

There are many hypotheses to the location of ancient Atlantis, or discussions and hypotheses as to whether it really ever existed. Many of these discussions and controversies are long-standing. Some location hypotheses could be related to Atlantis in the Atlantic and some definitely are not.

Keep in mind that the National Science Foundation is conducting research into supervolcanoes that are located on the ocean floor. According to the article describing this research the so-called Azores plateau is a supervolcano just as any other underwater plateau.[61]. Also, since 80% of volcanoes on the planet Earth are located under water, we are just beginning to find them. he alternate theory regarding the formation of underwater plateaus is moot for the Azores Plateau. "P" wave tomography has revealed a caldera under the Azores Plateau. In addition, geologic samples has revealed that the rock being sampled was delivered by a mantle plume because of it's physical and chemical makeup.

A Large Geologically Ancient Caldera Exists Below the Azores Plateau[edit]

The volcanoes of Sao Miguel are described as six volcanic zones. The map of the island reveals that three main areas of volcanic activity exist, one on each end of the island and one in the middle. [62] It is, in my opinion, one of the most beautiful places in the world. But the beauty of this place is underscored by the Azores Plateau upon which it resides, that covers an area of 400,000 sq.Km. Under the Azores Plateau lies a super volcanic system with a huge caldera fed by at least one and possibly two mantle plumes[63].

The three stratovolcanoes on Sao Miguel (the island is named after an arch-angel) are Sete Cidades, Agua de Pau and Furnas. Cutting to the chase, U.S. Geological Survey Bulletin 1900, Geology of Three Late Quaternary Stratovolcanoes on Sao Miguel, Azores by Richard B. Moore states that Furnas was formed entirely within the last 100,000 years. This is stated in the Abstract and Furnas' caldera is only 12,000 years old[64]. Elsewhere in this site Pico[65] was formed at approximately the same time in a VEI 5 eruption. Pico, the highest peak in the Atlantic is a volcano characterized by flank eruptions, such as the one at Mt. St. Helens in the U.S. in 1980[66]

The point I want to make is that both Fogo and Pico, volcanoes on two separate islands in the Azores, erupted simultaneously 12,000 years ago. Pico was formed then and Fogo had its present caldera formed then. That is not all. U.S. Geological Survey Bulletin 1900, Geology of Three Late Quaternary Stratovolcanoes on Sao Miguel, Azores by Richard B. Moore states on page 20 that Syenite Xenoliths as large as 0.5 meters in diameter are found in the alluvial deposits of all of the volcanoes on Sao Miguel[67]. Since the caldera of Furnas is only 12,000 years old, Syenite Xenoliths found in this caldera must be from somewhere else. Most likely, they are from the caldera under the Azores Plateau that is fed by Mantle Plumes.

Syenite Xenoliths are always partially composed of older, crystalline igneous rock. These rocks have formed in the crevasses of a caldera and are the products of a mantle plume[68]. Since Xenoliths were found in the 12,000 year old outflow from Furnas, this indicates a volcanic supereruption must have occurred at that time, 12,000 years ago from the supervolcano under the Azores Plateau. Furthermore, since Pico erupted with a VEI of 5, but it was not the only volcano erupting at that time, Furnas also erupted[69]. In addition, eruptions must have occurred underwater, not only because Plato described pumice floating beyond the Pillars of Hercules for some time after the eruption leaving the waters unnavigable, but something caused the glaciers to melt, the ocean levels world wide to rise and the ice age to end.

RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 04:29, 18 April 2016 (UTC)


The possibility of the mixing of sea water and magma in a caldera during a volcanic eruption on the ocean floor creating super-heated steam cannot be ignored. Such an occurrence could significantly increase the force of any volcanic eruption on the ocean floor especially a Plinian supervolcanic eruption in the Azores[70].

RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 01:51, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

The Separation of Corvo and Flores from the other Azores Islands by the Mid Atlantic Rift[edit]

Corvo and Flores are located over the North American tectonic plate. If indeed the Azores Islands are all the peaks of the island (or continent) of Atlantis, then the land would have had to been above the ocean surface and the Mid Atlantic Rift would have ran through the body of land from North to South. Under the body of land would have existed an immense caldera, perhaps the biggest one that ever existed on the Earth[71]. Keep in mind the fact that a Mantle Plume or Hotspot does not move in relationship to the core of the Earth. Rather, the surface of the Earth moves across it.

The significant unknown is the rate of spreading of the MAR. Every resource tends to give an average spread rate for the MAR which seems to vary[72] in addition, this variation tends to cause a variation in crustal thicknesses of the ocean floor[73]. This means that the MAR must spread at different rates along its length producing varying crustal thicknesses. Furthermore, none of these rate are constant. This is evidenced by the various horizontal fault lines along the ocean bottom that extend from East to West (or West to East). These signify the variations in MAR spread rates along the MAR from North to South. MAR spread can be expressed only in average spread rates. The proposed location of a mantle 'hot spot' is close to Terceira just east of the Mid Atlantic Rift (MAR)[74].

Corvo, being the smaller of the two that are separated from the rest of the 7 Azores islands, is approximately 6km X 4km in size and it has a surface area of 17 - 12 km2. Presently, it has a caldera that has erupted numerous times in Strombolian and Plinian eruptions. It started as a shield volcano and its later series of eruptions as a stratovolcano left the caldera open and collapsed. All of the lava flows over time studied on Corvo make it evident that the various lava flows originated from the same source. According to previous references,[75] the Corvo caldera was filled by a magma chamber approximately 15 km below it which was supplied by one or both of the mantle plumes that supplies the various calderas of other islands of the Azores archipelago. This crossing was described as being accomplished by magma conduits. P. 791[76].

RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 01:54, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

A Listing of Volcanoes Erupting in the Azores Archipelago 10 - 14,000 years ago[edit]

The purpose of this listing is to support the claim of a super-eruption causing the subsidence of the Azores Plateau below the surface of the Atlantic. Since Pico stratovolcano was formed in this eruption, and it is listed in research as a VEI 5, a simultaneous eruption of a group of the volcanoes of the Azores Archipelago could create a VEI of immense proportions, especially if hydrovolcanism is involved [77]. This, in turn, could cause the subsidence of the Azores Plateau and Atlantis to sink into the Atlantic ocean.

On the Agua de Pau (also known as Fogo) Massif Ribeira Cha located on Serra de Água de Pau on the island of São Miguel was created from an abrupt eruption 8 - 12,000 years ago[78].

The Sete Cidades Massif On the island of São Miguel erupted many times during the time period in question[79]. There exists geological evidence for pyroclastic density currents associated with three or four Plinian eruptions but the pyroclastic flows are sparse. These pyroclastic flows are said to have eroded or to have been confined to channels[80]. RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 03:15, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Pico Island and it's Stratovolcano of the same name, which is the highest elevation in the Atlantic basin, both seem to have formed in a large eruption 12-14k years before present. Both Pico and Faial islands in the Azores seem to both be possessing some volcanic secrets not mentioned in that both still have a common caldera under the ocean floor[81]. The entire Azores Plateau seemed to share a large caldera that was capable of supplying magma to an eruption in excess of a VEI 8. When the caldera collapsed, so did most of the larger island of Atlantis, leaving only small remnants of this former very large caldera.

(list will populate as time permits with references)

In a super-volcanic eruption multiple volcanoes erupt simultaneously. The resulting discharge of material can contribute to the estimate of the VEI associated with the eruption.

RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 03:43, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Is Atlantis fiction?[edit]

Plato's account seems like fiction. Ancient Greece came into existence around the 9th century B.C, and Atlantis was around in 9,600 B.C. Did the histories of these two civilizations cross paths?

Plato's account could be of a real Atlantis, but of a fictional Greek interaction with this civilization.

Could Plato have combined a Mediterranean volcano and oral tradition accounts and/or civilization history with a real account of Atlantis, to fabricate a new fiction?

Aristotle mentions Plato creating fables of civilizations then destroying them.[82]

Let us go to the source. Aristotle was hung up in realism and is known as the father of modern medicine. Plato, on the other hand, was an idealist who looked to theory rather than evidence. Therefore, he was more likely to rely on the historical and ideological evidence of the oral folklore tradition. Both of the philosophers, Aristotle and Plato have their place in the scientific methods used for research today.



RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 02:51, 19 November 2015 (UTC)


The Azores are still a very geologically active area with a significant hazard potential to residents[83]. Safety monitoring is taken seriously and potential exists for disasters from geological activity. Click below to confirm activity.


Underwater Volcanic Eruptions

80% of all volcanic eruptions occur underwater, on the floor of the Earth's oceans.

It is not a well-know fact, however, for every volcanic eruption found there statistically has to be 4 more that occurred on an ocean floor, somewhere.[84] See:

SUPERVOLCANO Eruptions[85]

Since the Azores islands are located on a underwater plateau that is on or near to an underwater supervolcano caldera, it behooves one to familiarize themselves with supervolcanoes and their characteristics and behaviors before one considers Atlantis not to be in the Azores or Atlantis being a fabrication of Plato.

The fact that the Azores islands are located near or at the conjunction of three tectonic plates, the North American Plate, the European Plate and the Nubian or African Plate is significant. The Mid-Atlantic Rift that is continuously generating new sea floor through an on-going volcanic eruption adds to the geological complexity of this piece of real estate. As if that were not enough the Azores Plateau is atop a piece of lithosphere plugging the caldera of a supervolcano that is fed by a Mantle Plume. In addition, the lava flow is partially melt from the friction of the lithosphere and partially by the Mantle Plume as is evidenced by analyzing the isotope content of the elements composing the rock, the ratios of those elements, the elements themselves and the chemistry of the geological samples from that area[86].

This IS science. This is cutting edge science.[87] Prominent scientific careers are at stake and prominent scientific careers will be made by scientists who are able to prove certain facts as they have been in the past, whether or not Atlantis existed, let alone if it was in the Azores.

Just because this hypothesis has not been researched to the level theory and/or proof is no reason to write off these geologic facts supporting the hypothesis. It is no reason to find fault with Plato's writings, either. In fact, a supervolcanic eruption underwater at this location would encumber sailing ships for a long time with floating pumice. Since we are talking an underwater Ultra Plinian eruption, such an eruption is beyond the current ability of science to discuss the results. Not enough is known to do this according to the following Wikipedia reference.[88]

RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 16:05, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Rise in sea level[edit]

Sea levels were 200-300 ft lower 10,000B.C. than today.[89] Around, 6,500 B.C. sea levels rose.[89] Some coastlines were 50-100 miles farther out than they are today.[89] RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 02:51, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Reasonable Locations[edit]

It is probable that since Atlantis was described as a seafaring nation that was a significant military power as Plato described that all of the other locations claimed to be Atlantis through the ages were merely colonies or possessions of this maritime culture. All of the possible locations are near or in the sea. When Atlantis sank civilization in coastal areas must have suffered total devastation. The ruins of these places ended up under water after the glaciers melted in the north, inundating their ruins and moving shorelines inland all over the world, in some cases they were moved inland by hundreds of miles.[89] RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 02:51, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Thera (Santorini)[edit]

The island of Santorini (Thera) is circular in shape, and is the corpse residual of a massive volcanic detonation which dates are coincidental to most pre-history Atlantis theory (5000-12,000 B.C). The explosion was so massive it is conceptualized that the resulting tsunami(s) destroyed many coastal nations in that area of the Mediterranean and wiped out any immediate civilization inhabiting on or within a many, many mile radius of Thera- including a massive destruction to the island of Crete. Crete has well documented Minoan ruins dating to at least 3500 B.C. possibly much earlier. But not 9,000 years earlier. The now (extinct) Minoan civilization is unique and does not cohabit Greko-Roman civilizations, and is considered to be unique and Sovereign in culture, art, economy, religion and government. This has led many believers to strongly relate the Minoan civilization to the Atlantean hypothesis. Strong geophysical and historical evidence supports that the Minoan civilization could have been one and the same- the lost civilization of Atlantis, but Plato would have had to have been deliberately lying about the time frames. Did he have a motive to lie? For more information regarding Santorini, go to the following site. Wikipedia: Location hypotheses of Atlantis Consider that the Minoan civilization could be descendants of Atlantean culture, too.


The Azores Plateau or Islands were described in the writings of Plato as the ancient location of Atlantis. This plateau is located over a rift where tectonic plates pull apart from each other, a caldera and a mantle plume originating in the Earth's core. Could the separation of these plate masses along with a volcanic eruption around 10 thousand years B.C. such as the one that occurred in Yellowstone Park in the U.S. 650 thousand years ago have caused this plateau to sink? Keep in mind there is no rift valley in Yellowstone Park. There is only the caldera and the mantle plume and ground that rises and falls periodically.

Unlike some other candidates for Atlantis which only have one volcano or even NO volcanoes, the Azores Islands have either one volcano or several volcanoes. On each of the Azores islands, many volcanoes are not extinct, some are dormant and some are active. Check it out here on wikipedia... Wikipedia: List of volcanoes in Portugal also, you may want to look over this website that lists 15 volcanoes, many considered still active, although if they are associated with a supervolcano and its caldera, plus a mantle plume, I seriously doubt if any listed on either site are truly extinct, but instead they are just dormant. Again, please remember, all of these volcanoes are associated with the mid-Atlantic ridge, 3 continental plates AND a supervolcano caldera that is fed by a mantle plume and lithosphere/tectonic plate interaction, in addition to the MAR seafloor formation.

Following the hypothesis that the Azores area exists over a supervolcano recent research draws the conclusion that the Azores caldera exhibits the same structures under water that exists in Toba in the Pacific and others. The descriptions are drawn from the results of P-wave tomographic studies describes magma resulting from lithospheric friction as well as magma plumes[90].

This supports the hypothesis that indeed an underwater supervolcano exists at the Azores Plateau that is indeed capable of an eruption of VEI 8.

Mount Pico is the highest mountain in the Atlantic ocean. It is the cone of a Stratovolcano and its formation is about 10,000 years old according to Wikipedia: Mount Pico This correlates with the time frame given by Plato in his writings for the demise of Atlantis. Coincidence or confirmation of the accuracy of Plato's story of Atlantis sinking? In addition, tsunamis flooded the Atlantic 8 - 10 k years ago as indicated in this site.

This would be part of the disturbance in the Atlantic Ocean when Atlantis sank as the result of an underwater Supervolcanic eruption in or near the Azores that caused the demise of Atlantis. There are other records of tsunamis around the Atlantic basin that roughly correspond with Plato's original time line. In addition, there were tsunamis in the Mediterranean sea that also correspond to the time line.

The flood of the Black Sea through the Bosporus occurred around 6-10,000 years ago according to various sources and their estimates. Or, according to Could this breach have been the result of tsunamis from the sinking of Atlantis?

To confirm this hypothesis of Atlantis in the Azores only requires one to gather information already available.

J. Garner PhD aka RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs)

Hypothesis by J. Garner PhD[edit]

The original discussion of the Azores as a location for Atlantis began on the Azores site in Wikipedia. It evolved over a period of several years, beginning in 2009. Geological correlation started to become apparent to me. Although correlation cannot be used as direct evidence, the evidence seems to be accumulating and science seems to be providing increasing research to uphold this hypothesis. It was moved here so that the discussion might continue, with people discussing not the evidence that Atlantis was located somewhere other than the Azores, and at another time, but that Atlantis was located exactly where Plato said it was located and it existed exactly when he said that it existed. My Master's Degree is in Physics, and my Doctorate is in Education. As time permits, I will add items to support this hypothesis. If you have something that you can document that supports the Azores as the center of Alantean civilization please add it by editing. If you are not sure how to do this leave me a message or go ahead and do your edit and it can be re-formatted later. Or, you can click in a discussion forum and leave it.

Description of how an entire mountain range estimated to be 12,000 feet high disappeared into the Super Volcano Caldera at Yellowstone National Park USA.[91]

Dr. Jake Lowenstern is a research geologist with the USGS. (United States Geological Survey). Jake Lowenstern is a scientist-in-charge at the Yellowstone Volcano Observatory. The U.S. Geological Survey is based in Menlo Park, California. Dr. Lowenstern confirms that a supervolcano such as Yellowstone has no cone but instead has a huge caldera that presents itself at Yellowstone as a huge valley. Dr Lowenstern when asked during an interview about the Yellowstone Caldera swallowing real estate states that the last eruption at Yellowstone swallowed up a 12,000 foot high mountain range 80 Kilometers in length making it disappear by causing it to sink into the caldera.

Thus a mountain range has sank into the Yellowstone Supervolcano Caldera 650 million years ago during its last supervolcanic eruption. It is still missing, apparently, just like Atlantis.

RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 02:51, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

The similarity of a hypothesis of Atlantis sinking into the floor of the Atlantic Ocean, beneath which the Azores supervolcanic caldera is located is notable.

Picture the Azores super volcano erupting under water. The ocean floor opens up in a circle-like manner around the Azores plateau that was the original island of Atlantis. The eruption ended up causing the island to sink as Plato described, " one terrible day and night" Sinking into the ocean causing terrible disruptions on the ocean surface with tsunamis, extremely large amounts of super-heated steam rising from the ocean and super-heated pumice rock floating to the ocean surface plugging up the surface of the ocean.

This catastrophe ushers in the modern appearance of the world and the end of the last ice age with climate changes, mass extinctions and pushing the civilization of mankind into a new era.

The more that one studies super-volcanoes the more one understands that the Azores Islands and the sunken caldera of the supervolcano there presents a unique geological formation on the Planet Earth.

There is simply no other geological formation that comes close to mimicking this one for the location of Atlantis as Plato described in Timeus. First, you have a supervolcano, and it is currently as active as the one at Yellowstone National Park in America, except this one is under water. This supervolcano is also fed by a mantle plume.

Furthermore, it is on the mid-Atlantic rift where new seafloor is being formed. In addition, it is at the intersection of the North American Plate, the European Plate and the African Plate.

Claiming that deep sea cores from millions of years ago proves that the Azores has been underwater for millions of years is not quite accurate unless you completely ignore volcanism and what is happening at Yellowstone Park in the USA. The Alps mountains exhibit evidence that they were once the floor of a sea bed. This old Earth is a restless lady. Ground can go up it certainly can subside also, especially in an area of a unique geologic formation that science is only beginning to understand. A significant part of the Geologists of the world deny this fact. The conservative geologic scientists of the time denied Wagner's Theory of Plate Tectonics also called Continental Drift until they were forced to accept it by overwhelming evidence. Alfred Wagner was not educated as a geologist.

As I stated above in 2009, there is little research into the Azores as a location for Atlantis, but claims abound that place it's location at numbers of other places that Plato didn't even mention. The geologic formations are in the Azores to support Plato's story.

Furthermore, this website, documents the current activity of the Supervolcano in the Azores and it is just as active as the Supervolcano at Yellowstone National Park in Wyoming in the USA. The only difference is that it is deep on the floor of the ocean. It is a collapsed caldera and it is still active.

Plato's documentation should be accepted as written. After all, we still study his philosophy. However, when it comes to his historical writings, the establishment does everything that it can to deny the possibility that Atlantis is right where Plato said it was. The problem is that there were no geologists in Plato's time. I understand caution. If caution crosses the line to denial then scientific knowledge is obstructed. Look how long it took the concept of Continental Drift to be widely accepted. There is a lot of research that still exists from cores taken form the floor of the Atlantic Ocean that is presently being ignored that support wide-spread volcanic eruptions in the Atlantic Basin 10,000 years ago toward the end of the last Ice Age. As time permits I will present this evidence here in Wikiversity. This is not an Edgar Cayce prediction. It is a written record from one of the greatest philosophers who ever lived and modern research that supports Plato's writings.

Furthermore, Plato describes in perfect detail the scientific description of a supervolcanic eruption. How would he know this? It is time to shake of the bonds of gradualism and to realize that the last ice age ended abruptly at the time that Plato says the eruption occurred. Is this merely a coincidence? There is evidence of spectacular mass extinctions, tsunami activity, and there is evidence of catastrophic climate change at that time.

This subject deserves discussion and research. Just saying it didn't happen on misapplied evidence and charges that the time frame and location is incorrect on intuitive assumptions is not science, it is denial.

In evidence of Plato's description of Atlantis, the ground and the city, surrounded by concentric rings of land and rings of water or canals, all navigable from an ocean bay one can see that this is a rough description of a collapsed volcanic caldera. Admittedly, these geologic structures exist at locations all over the world. Atlantis could not have been at each and every one of them. Also, see

It is an accepted fact that a 'hot spot' exists that has created the Hawaiian Island Chain. However, what might happen if this spot corresponded exactly with a rift zone?

With the two descriptions given picture a 'hot spot' passing under a rift zone. Is this what could have happened to Atlantis?

Might a 'hot spot' such as the one at Yellowstone or the one close to Iceland moving under a rift zone cause a portion of a plate to break off and have enough magma extruded from under it to cause it to collapse into the ocean?

The relatively new revelation that Supervolcanoes exist and have erupted in the past should cause the curious, the truly scientific minds, to re-examine Plato as a historian in addition to a philosopher. This especially true because his descriptions of the topography of Atlantis correspond with modern geological descriptions of how the Earth works. Plato did not know this, so how could it be made up?

With the discovery of a Supervolcano near Vesuvius, These volcanoes are not rare. But people still build castles and cities on top of the 'plugs' in their vents...

What a gorgeous castle. Just like the main castle Plato described...

J. Garner PhD. aka RAYLEIGH22

A hypothesis without an explanation to account for the rise and fall of a large piece of the floor of the Atlantic ocean seems incomplete. Indeed, it is incomplete. Therefore, to simplify matters, I should explain possible mechanisms to accomplish the seeming insurmountable task of accomplishing the raising (or, rather the sinking) of the entire plateau in the area of the Azores islands.

The most simple, uncomplicated explanation without specifics I will call (Supervolcano plume hydraulics) or simple hydraulics. The specifics that describe the variations of magma present in the volcanoes of the Azores area may be found by reviewing the following piece of research.

"Constraints on melting processes and plume-ridge interaction from comprehensive study of the FAMOUS and North Famous segments, Mid-Atlantic Ridge." A. Gale, M. Laubier, S. Escrig, C.H. Langmuir Department of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Harvard University, 20 Oxford Street, Cambridge MA 02138, USA. 

A brief review of this research, especially fig.10, illustrates how the magma from the mantle plume flows under the lithosphere and along this flow causes melt. The resulting mix of the magma which is part from the mantle plume, part magma from the Mid-Atlantic ridge and part from the melting of the underside of the lithosphere supports the plateau. An eruption of all of the volcanoes along the borders of this plate segment would be like letting the pressure off of a simple hydraulic cylinder. As a result, the lithosphere sinks. When the eruptions subside the lithosphere is at a lower level. This would also account for all of the variations in magma from the various volcanoes and why a flow from the Mid-Atlantic ridge is seemingly reversed, as is mentioned in several research papers.

It would also account for the ocean being un-navigatable for some number of years from the pumice that would be floating on top of the water after the sinking of Atlantis, aka, the Azores plateau as Plato described.

Therefore, looking for the age of this crust of the segment of the lithosphere would show the original time the section of the lithosphere was formed, but would show little evidence of it sinking under the ocean. The remnants of river beds and so forth as described would indicate the approximate age of those features, but not how it came to be the present ocean floor or even how long it has been in its present position. RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 02:51, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

The volcanoes of the island of São Miguel in the Azores

The island of São Miguel in the Azores has three active central volcanoes. These are Sete Cidades, Fogo, and Furnas. Furnas does not have a cone but rather a steep-sided caldera approximately 8 km X 5 km across. The activity of Furmas is Plinian and it has a history of at least two significant eruptions in the time frame told by Plato’s description of Atlantis that resulted in caldera collapse and refilling. The first was 30,000 yrs BP and the second was 10,000 to 12,000 years BP. More recent eruptions have occurred, the first 1630 AD and new evidence suggests that another occurred during the human occupation of the Azores at about 1440 AD. [92] (discuss) 02:05, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

An Examination of an Unexplored "European" Volcano"

Recently, I ran across an interesting discussion Of Monaco Bank, an Unexplored European Volcano on a web site called Volcano Cafe.

It is certainly worth a look and through a couple of research publications the caldera underneath the Azores begins to be revealed. As research reveals the shape, depth and extent of the Mantle Plume fed caldera, we also see that the flow of magma is contributed to by continental drift. Apparently, the mixing of the two magma sources, one from the plume and the other from continental plate interactions, analysis of the isotopes of helium from each source reveals the source of the magma, i.e. mantle plume or continental plate interaction. RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 02:51, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

A 3-D Perspective of the Sunken Island of Atlantis[edit]

If you Click on the map at the site below, enlarge it and use the ctrl while dragging with the mouse, it is possible to get a 360 degree perspective of the Azores Plateau and a depth perspective to clearly see the outline of the sunken plateau. Keep in mind that this is modern technology and the hypothesis of the Geology of the sinking of the plateau have yet to be worked out. However, keep in mind that a mountain range disappeared into the Yellowstone caldera 650 thousand years ago. It will take a lot of research and work to convince mainstream science that this happened on the Atlantic Ocean floor 12,000 years ago and ushered the end of the last ice age in Europe and in North America. Thanks and kudos to Google Maps for this fine 3-D perspective illustrating the elevation of the Azores Plateau.,-30.7461194,2641208a,20y,357.94h,5.97t/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en-US

RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 00:48, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Seewarte Seamounts[edit]

Seewarte Seamounts are a cluster of seamounts in the Northern Atlantic that include Plato, and Atlantis Seamounts, understood to be just named after the legend.

I would dispute any statement about any seamount in this area of the world being extinct. I would go along with dormant, or possibly inactive. Since we cannot properly visualize the rise or fall of the sea floor in this area, and research is scarce in this area, I have reservations about calling any volcanic structure extinct.

Predicting the Eruption of Undersea Volcanoes

Turns out that geologists have not been able to accurately predict the eruption of volcanoes on land. However, recently, a group of scientists exploring a volcano off the west coast of America wrote a paper that accurately predicted the eruption of a Seamount volcano. This volcano rises 2000 feet from the floor of the Pacific off the west coast of America.

They left monitoring equipment on the ocean floor. When they went to recover the equipment they discovered that the sea floor had changed. Later, they determined that there had been a significant eruption of this undersea volcano that had changed the sea floor. The curious thing is that nobody had noticed that there had been an eruption.

Their prediction that the Seamount volcano would erupt in 2014 turned out to be accurate. Now they are searching for ways of applying their prediction techniques to land based volcanoes[93].

Islands in the Azores That Have Sank and Then Re-appeared[edit]

The geologic record reveals that although Santa Maria is the oldest island in the Azores being formed some 7 million years ago, it sank into the ocean. Later, it rose back up above the ocean’s surface. The fact that it has ocean fossils present in it’s rocky surface attests to the fact that in the Azores, islands sink into the ocean and then rise again.

Source RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 02:51, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Islands in the Azores That Have Risen Above the Surface of the Ocean and Then Have Sank Again[edit]

Near Sao Miguel island an island rose from under the ocean in 1811. The British claimed the island and named it Sabrina. Shortly after the island was claimed by the British, it sank back into the ocean and it has not been seen since.

Source RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 02:51, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Discussion Regarding the appearance and disappearance of the island Sabrina continues[edit]

Some researchers make the hypothesis that the island rising and sinking was due to landslide activity.[94]

Others counter that the island did indeed rise and sink due to volcanic activity.[95]

Consider that the Atlantic Ocean has risen and then receded numerous time in geologic history.[96]

Conversation about Yellowstone Park USA with Jake Lowenstern

Yellowstone – Jacob Lowenstern

Timeus Correlations[edit]

As described by Plato in these dialogues Solon visited the old priesthood in Egypt. He was told clearly of the lands within the Pillars of Hercules and the lands outside of the Pillars of Hercules.

The Priest also made the statement that the Sea or Atlantic ocean outside of the Pillars of Hercules were no longer navigable.

I ask the reader to consider the land of Atlantis as a plateau, a huge cone of a Supervolcano. It was and is (because it is still there, it is just under water) still a caldera on the conjunction of 3 tectonic plates, whose top is a plug. Under this is the Mantle plume feeding caldera, the magma produced by the melt of the rock grinding and being fed into the caldera, and a fractured piece of rock not unlike a wormian bone formation in the sutures of a human skull. Look at the "Azores Microplate" in the diagram/map at this website/article.

Thickness of the Azores Plateau Compared to the Sea Floor Surrounding the Plateau[edit]

The Azores Plateau is described as being 100% thicker than the sea floor surrounding it, essentially, this means that the Azores Plateau is twice as thick as the sea floor and in addition, surface area of the Azores Plateau is described as being approximately 400,000 square Kilometers.[97]

Description of an underwater super volcanic eruption[edit]

If the supervolcano erupts the underwater volcanoes go into a Plinian eruption underwater and eventually connecting to form a ring around the plateau or microplate. This is similar to the eruption described in Yellowstone Park in the USA. However, here, the plateau sinks under the water rather into a valley. The resultant steam, clouds and evaporated water rising from the ocean goes into the atmosphere creating the large deluge that moves toward Europe and the Mediterranean and on into Russia and Asia and powers the oral flood traditions of many diverse cultures of the world. Moreover, there are no super-heated pyroclastic flows, only floating pumice is left. There is a HUGE pumice plug floating in the ocean in the area making it non-navigable for the sailing vessels of that time for maybe 1000 or more years, as described to Solon by the Egyptian Priest. As the pumice distributes itself throughout the Atlantic by wave action, there is little geologic record left for us 12-14,000 years after the fact in the form of sediment on the ocean floor to indicate that this supervolcanic eruption actually occurred. The dusting of pumice that exists on the floor of the Atlantic is claimed to be from Icelandic eruptions.

Research Data that supports an underwater volcanic super eruption[edit]

The SE Terceira Rift alone contains 252 submarine volcanic cones. (Seamounts) These cones all demonstrate the characteristics of Plinian (explosive) eruption. These cones exist up to 3200 meters below the ocean surface. The average diameter of these cones is 732 meters. The heights of these cones vary between 200 meters for the highest to a minimum of 50 meters. The volcanoes developed simultaneously according to High-resolution multichannel seismic data[98]. This data supports the hypothesis description of a supervolcanic eruption and the sinking of Atlantis. 80 percent of volcanic eruptions occur on the ocean floor[99]

Since earthquakes, landslides, flooding of the plateau and resultant multiple tsunamis would be indescribably catastrophic, NO ARCHAEOLOGICAL dig could reveal Atlantis, either the continent or the city. It is now almost two miles deep on a plateau resting on the ocean floor that is several miles further down with the supervolcanic caldera down even further than that under the Azores Plateau which is twice as thick as the rest of the ocean floor in this area. The magma moving in this caldera is recorded as earthquake swarms in the area of the Azores and may be seen on the website today. ------>

If you wish to see the Azorean Plateau or get an idea how big it is go back the the website above that shows the earthquake activity. Now using your mouse click on the "-" and back the view out making the islands smaller and the perspective of the north Atlantic more complete. You can see the Azores Plateau and the Mid Atlantic Rift (MAR) now. There is a triangular seafloor plateau with three known sea floor fault lines on its borders. The MAR runs from North East to South West and is part of this triangular border. I am seeking permission to use a more detailed bathymetric map of the Azores and the North Atlantic Basin Area. Click here reference #1. or here reference #2. to get an idea of what the sea floor looks like in the area of the Azores. (the maps must be approved first before the references can be used.)

The gulf stream no longer diverted by the land mass starts to change the climate on both sides of the Atlantic and the world climate changes, some parts fast and some parts slowly. Meanwhile, you still have the Mid-Atlantic Ridge grinding out ocean floor and the ridge is moving East and the hot spot with the mantle plume and caldera is migrating West and slowly changing into what we see today.

Don't hunt for Atlantis. You will never find it now. It exists only in Plato's writings (and the Egyptian Priest's, should his writings ever be revealed) and the oral tradition of the folklore of mankind. If the hypothesis presented here is correct the chances of finding ruins on the Azores plateau is extremely small. The utter devastation would be so complete as to make it difficult to find one man-made block sitting atop another. This makes it easy for one to ignore the evidence presented here and deny that it ever existed.

More about the ice bridge and the bog people in Florida 10-15,000 years old with European DNA will be added later. This is but another disaster in the long history of mankind on the planet Earth described as recurrent By the old Egyptian priest to Solon as told by Plato. (Not made-up, but as accurate as any oral tradition folklore can be that is written and recorded by an ancient academic, aka Plato.)

Mass extinctions and climate change descriptions that happened 12,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age to be added as time permits.

RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs)

Explanation describing what happened to the magma extruded during the super eruption that sank the island of Atlantis[edit]

Deposits Along the Coast of France Left in the Late Quaternary Epoch

Deposits of 1.6 meters thickness described as occurring in the late Quaternary along the coastal region of France Pg. 161[100] are from the disintegration of the pumice from the undersea eruptions that caused the sinking of Atlantis. They are dated between 14,000 and 10,000 years before present, within the time period described by Plato as the time period of the sinking of Atlantis. (discuss) 19:40, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Abnormalities Exist That Makes Calderas Occurring along the Atlantic Rift Different Than Those That Occur Under Continental Plates

The reference is a computer-constructed image of the caldera under Yellowstone National Park USA using "P" wave tomography data[101].

The caldera under the Azores Plateau must be imaged by "wavefront" data using a techniques of Rayleigh wave fronts. The "P" waves diverge from the source which is an earthquake but the surface disturbances of the ocean floor is relied upon more heavily by this technique than the "P" waves from an earthquake source traversing the diameter of the Earth. This makes obtaining an outline without a seismographic array on the ocean floor much more difficult.

Research has revealed that along the Mid Atlantic Rift (MAR) that Mantle Plumes behave in a manner that causes them to 'flatten out' so to speak and to also consist of melt that comes from under the segments lithosphere beneath which they reside. I would hypothesize that this can reduce the forces that hold the lithosphere in place making the spread of lithosphere laterally from the MAR more rapid over time. This can explain why some volcanoes further from the MAR are younger in age than others nearer to the MAR. That is, some volcanoes closer to the MAR are older than those located further from the MAR. If this appears to be confusing to you read the research.[102][103]

Indeed, with the knowledge being gained the behavior of 'Mother Earth' around so-called RIFTING zones is becoming more and more a troubling problem to those who believe that they completely understand the behaviors of tectonic plates and the spreading of Rift Zones.

Results of the so-called Sinking of Atlantis

With the sinking (or sliding) of the Azores plateau the gulf stream current was no longer restricted and turned back south by the large island of Atlantis. This had three results. The first result was a gradual warming of the climate and the melting of the ice bridge from Europe to America as the warm gulf stream current bathed the areas to the north. The second was the pumice from the under ocean eruption gradually disintegrating and laying down here as well as throughout the Atlantic basin deposits of mud on the Atlantic shelf that is easy to find. The final result was the rising of the oceans of the world from the ice melting. This rising of the oceans is well documented in scientific literature. (discuss) 19:40, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Western Mediterranean[edit]

Could the straits have been between Italy and Africa, instead of the straight of Gibraltar, thus making Atlantis location the western Mediterranean? If this were the case, Sardinia and Spain are candidates for Atlantis' location.

If Atlantis was a military power as Plato described these sites if they have ruins could be the remnants of colonies of Atlantis, too. The problem is that no written history is available or even history of these times. We must remember that 10,000 to 12,000 years ago much of northern Europe in addition to America was covered with glaciers.

The mass extinctions and the ocean rise around the world occurred at about this time.

On the other hand could the sinking of Atlantis have caused a rise in the ocean levels and submerged these areas of the Western Mediterranean Sea in the areas of Sardinia and Spain. It is well documented that seal levels rose and that the coasts in many areas of the world moved 50 to 100 miles inland.

If a 6 foot rise in sea level were to occur today the coasts of all areas of the world would change significantly. Practically the whole state of Florida in the United States would be underwater. The flooding of coastal areas throughout America would be devastating[104]. Much more devastation than merely Atlantis sinking happened in the world in the end of the last epoch. The record of the coast of Texas changing goes back 10,000 years[105].

Click here for a contemporary assessment of sea level rise.

RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 19:57, 4 December 2015 (UTC)



A catastrophe as described in this hypothesis would set civilization back thousands of years.

Evidence exists in the form of similarity of human DNA that the supervolcanic eruption at Toba in the Pacific was so large that it caused a volcanic winter and world-wide extinctions and starvation 70,000 years BC. This created what is called a "bottleneck" in human DNA where natural DNA mutations that may be confirmed using mathematical probability are not present. Thus, the species of Homo Sapien was reduced to very low numbers at that time.

Luckily, the supervolcanic eruption that is being alleged that destroyed Atlantis was not as devastating because the eruption occurred on the floor of the Atlantic Ocean instead of in the atmosphere. In an e-mail conversation with Jake Lowenstern of the USGS he told me unequivically that the Azores could not have had an eruption large enough to sink Atlantis because research has not yet found evidence of a VEI 8 or larger eruption in the Azores. They have found one of at least a VEI 5, though, the one that formed Mt. Pico. (This eruption was approximately the size of Pinatubo in the Philippines which was classified as a VEI 5)[106] It was not on the ocean floor. It was the volcano PICO and this eruption was dated about 14,000 years ago. (reference to follow soon)

It appears that the eruption that formed Mt. Pico and Massif Ribeira Cha located on Serra de Água de Pau on the island of São Miguel (aka Fogo) occurred at the same time as the supervolcanic eruption on the ocean floor that sank Atlantis.

70,000 years ago in Sumatra, the volcano Toba blew its top in a scientifically accepted eruption of greater than a VEI 8 (VEI = Volcano Explositivity Index) officially 2.8 times larger than the eruption of the Yellowstone volcano 650,000 years ago [107] that is a termed a super volcano.

The proof is not only in the geological record, but the near extinction event evidence is present in the mitochondrial DNA of every human living in the world today. Statistically, (...and we cannot say that statistics is NOT evidence. Not even Einstein could refute statistics and mathematical probability when faced with Quantum Mechanics...) science has narrowed the breeding pairs of humans at this time 70,000 years ago to be no larger than 1,000 to 10, 000. This is being called the genetic bottleneck theory and it is based upon mitochondrial DNA.[108]

So how can we say that civilization did not exist before approximately 6,000 years ago? How can one claim to know this when human DNA has revealed that catastrophe has had a significant part in shaping mankind? Evidence in the archaeological record tells us that our species, Homo Sapiens, existed 164,000 yrs. before present time.[109]

Clearly, even though we have Satorini and the downfall of civilizations none of them date to the times that Plato described. Even the fact that some are attempting to say Atlantis was Satorini implies tacit acceptance of Plato's story, albeit on their own terms that facilitates their own best interests.

RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 03:14, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

The following account of time, millennium by millennium, supposes that man was not civilized before 10,000 years ago. This may be considered ignoring sea level changes before 10,000 years ago as if they were insignificant or that they simply didn't happen. [110] The end of the last ice age saw incredible sea level rises. As time permits and research confirms this will be changed to include any scientifically revealed sea level rises or climate changes that were significant. Bear in mind, it is not possible to minimize the effect of melting over a mile and a half thickness of glacial of ice that covered the North American continent and also created an ice bridge across the North Atlantic to Europe before the end of the last ice age that happened simultaneously with the demise of Atlantis.

[When can the the hypothesis discussed here be elevated to a theory? Or, when can the label Fringe Science be dumped?]

Two things must happen to advance this hypothesis to a theory.

1. Deep sea mounts such as the Azores Plateau must be shown to have volcanic origins. Currently, Tamu Massif underwater in the Pacific is the size of New Mexico or the British Isles has been identified under the Pacific Ocean, about 1,000 miles (1,600 kilometers) east of Japan, making it the biggest volcano on Earth and one of the biggest in the solar system. [111] This is where current research is focusing. Tamu Massif is a rounded dome that measures about 280 by 400 miles (450 by 650 kilometers), or more than 100,000 square miles. By comparison the Azores plateau is roughly triangular shaped and 52,000 square miles or about half the area of Tamu Massif. Using 1/2b X h the Azores plateau is b = 297 mi h = 350 mi because the Azores Plateau is roughly triangular shaped. When science accepts that these lithospheric 'islands' are actually floating on magma-filled calderas and will sink when a super-eruption (or other disturbance) occurs then this will also be applicable also to the Azores Plateau which is currently demonstrating moving magma by earthquake activity.[112] In my opinion a sea mount such as one of these never rise once they have sank but they can build stratovolcano cones on their surface that may rise above the ocean surface and create an island. There are 9 volcanic islands in the Azores island group.[113] Several islands have more than one volcano. Tamu Massif has never had a peak above the Pacific Ocean surface according to the most recent research.

2. It must be discovered that an underwater super-eruption occurred in the Azores Plateau of level VEI-8 or better. Equivalent proof of volumes of material erupted both above and below the ocean surface will probably need definitions above and beyond the VEI (or Volcanic Explosive index) will need to be defined and used to illustrate the size of this hypothesized "super eruption" of the Azores Plateau super volcano. Recent observation has found that a large undersea eruption occurred of the coast of the state of Oregon recently but it was not noticed by scientists at the time that it occurred. Therefore, proving that an underwater plinian super-eruption occurred in the Azores 10-12 thousand years ago that started the end of the most recent glacier period may be a tall order for geological science of today.

As the theory goes, #2 will be the hardest thing to prove, and it will therefore take a lot of time and advancement in scientific geological methods of underwater volcanic research. Don't forget. 80% of volcanoes on Earth are underwater. It remains to be seen if 80% of volcanic eruptions occur underwater. However, the number of volcanic eruptions underwater may be more or less than 80%. As in Hawaii, a volcano erupts constantly or almost so. The MAR in the Atlantic Ocean bottom also has an eruption occurring almost constantly. In fact, the MAR may even erupt more often than the Hawaii "mantle plume". But it is in the middle of a tectonic plate like Yellowstone Park in the USA. What happens if the MAR, a "mantle plume" and an underwater sea-mount, the Azores Plateau are in close proximity on the floor of the Atlantic? Researchers are working to find the answer to this question.

As we see, scientific knowledge grows slowly and in spurts caused by scientific understanding breakthroughs. The scientific establishment is reasonably reluctant to do this, because it disturbs the status-quo. I am reasonably reluctant to champion it because I am too old to be famous. So, I take this on as a hobby of sorts.

It keeps people in "talk" guessing and speculating. Hint: it is scientific curiosity...

RAYLEIGH22 (discusscontribs) 02:52, 23 April 2016 (UTC)


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