Wikiversity translations/7 September IRC
This was an attempt to make sense of German terminology concerning research and literature reviews.
From IRC (Freenode) #wikiversity-en[edit | edit source]
Log file opened at: 9/5/06 12:44:20 AM [edited for readability]
SB_Johnny has joined channel #wikiversity-en
JWSchmidt: hi SB_Johnny
guillom|away is now known as guillom
SB_Johnny: Hi everyone
guillom: hi johnny
SB_Johnny: hi guillom
SB_Johnny: raining today... got any chores for me?
SB_Johnny: more translating?
guillom: not for the moment i think
guillom: unless you can translate from english to french :)
SB_Johnny actually *can* read both French and German, but he's a bit rusty.
guillom: don't mind
SB_Johnny: I might be able to go from French to English, but not English to French.
JWSchmidt: Wikiversity translations
wikiversil: http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity_translations
guillom: thanks john, i didn't know this page
guillom: great indeed
Scope of research[edit | edit source]
SB_Johnny: I'll give this a shot: http://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Scope_of_research/De#2
JWSchmidt: SB_Johnny: thanks
JWSchmidt: do you see the machine translation version
SB_Johnny: what's the destination page?
JWSchmidt: we need a good translation at Beta: "Wikiversity talk:Scope of research/En"
JWSchmidt: http://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity_talk:Scope_of_research/En
JWSchmidt: http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity_translations#machine_translation_.28not_adequate.29
SB_Johnny: oh, I see the problem. they would use "Interpretation" and "exegisis" for what we call "secondary research"
SB_Johnny: w:Exegesis
wikiversil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exegesis
JWSchmidt: "Interpretation" and "exegisis" <-- so does that mean "literature review"?
SB_Johnny: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textinterpretation
SB_Johnny: sort of. interpreting texts and drawing conclusions that are metadiscursive
SB_Johnny: "the September 4"... yup, he's German alright :)
SB_Johnny: there's not much sense translating that... it's really just a "what the fuck are you guys talking about?" entry. I'll try to explain on the talk page.
JWSchmidt: lol
SB_Johnny: Actually, I can't find entries for either primary research or secondary research on wp...
SB_Johnny: w:Original_research
wikiversil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_research
JWSchmidt: I put some references here: http://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity_talk:Scope_of_research/En#Reading
SB_Johnny: ok, now we just need someone to translate that into german :)
SB_Johnny is a one-way translator
aschoeke[edit | edit source]
aschoeke has joined channel #wikiversity-en
aschoeke: hi there
SB_Johnny: hi!
JWSchmidt: hello aschoeke
SB_Johnny: hold on, finding the page
aschoeke: got to learn for my java exam, but go ahead
SB_Johnny: (aschoeke is a german speaker)
SB_Johnny: http://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Research/En
SB_Johnny: http://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Secondary_research/En
SB_Johnny: because of this: http://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Scope_of_research/De#2
SB_Johnny: you'll see the problem :)
SB_Johnny: even just a sentence or two explaining what we mean by primary and secondary research would do... they're rather confused by our use of the terms
aschoeke: ok
SB_Johnny: thanks!
aschoeke: i"ll have a look
SB_Johnny: ok. let us know if there's any trouble. :)
aschoeke: well, in my opinion it is not that difficult
aschoeke: There is actually a term for it in german
aschoeke: but it isn't used that often ;)
JWSchmidt: if we have the German word it might be possible to cite a source
aschoeke: In Sociology you would talk of "der akademische Mittelbau" for original research. i think
aschoeke: the problem is, that it is rather far away from the original word
aschoeke: so i would suggest something like "forschung und lehre" :-/
aschoeke: as you divide the university also in reality
JWSchmidt: Primary and Secondary research in the context of social science research (in English): http://ec.hku.hk/acadgrammar/report/resProc/research.htm
aschoeke: ok
SB_Johnny: ah yes, akademische Mittelbau. Unfortunately my German is very good for reading Husserl and Hegel, but not so good for chatting :)
aschoeke: dont know
aschoeke: is a bit more complicated
SB_Johnny: I think the difference is mainly between Forschung and Textinterpretation
SB_Johnny: or maybe Untersuchungen
aschoeke: it looks like there is also a problem of empiric research and theoretical research envolved
SB_Johnny: yes, that's the kernel.
JWSchmidt: we could use a list of different types of research
SB_Johnny: Primary = empirical (with data collection)
aschoeke: JWSchmidt, wouldnt work
aschoeke: nono
aschoeke: that will not do
SB_Johnny: Secondary = based on preexisting texts
JWSchmidt: Wikiversity must decide on policy for which types of research are allowed
aschoeke: as you can not divide empirical and preexisitng
aschoeke: you need booth for primary
SB_Johnny: right
aschoeke: ok
aschoeke: how about "aufbereitende und aktive Forschung"
aschoeke: would be preparing and active research
SB_Johnny: Aber ich glaube dass das sogennante "Primary Research" die sammlung des data auch impliziert
aschoeke: yes
SB_Johnny: ...weil diese sammlung im "Secondary Research" nicht impliziert.
aschoeke: so it is a question of the word "aufbereitend"
SB_Johnny: I think so, hold on
SB_Johnny: yes, I think. how the materials for the research are collected and prepared.
aschoeke: ok
aschoeke: aufbereitend is misleading
aschoeke: maybe vorbereitend ;)
aschoeke: but that is a bit far away again
aschoeke: next try: vergleichende und aktive forschung... may be that
aschoeke: ?
SB_Johnny: yeah. It's really just a difference in that secondary research doesn't involve the collection of raw data, but instead relies on the interpretation of already-written texts that have already analyzed the data
SB_Johnny: are those expressions used in German?
aschoeke: vergleichende forschung yes
aschoeke: but i dont know of a counter part
SB_Johnny: ah, that's it!
SB_Johnny: There is no counterpart. Original research is just Forschung
SB_Johnny: "Original" is simply implied.
aschoeke: yes, i think so too
SB_Johnny: cool. That makes things much easier then.
aschoeke: cool :)
SB_Johnny: Thanks so much! Would you mind dropping a note on the talk page there so they'll understand what we're trying to say?
aschoeke: ok