Wikiversity talk:Sandbox Server

From Wikiversity

Contents 1 Discuss what is needed 1.1 CS Dept. would like to have resources for coursework 1.2 There has been talk about Collaborative Computing 2 Feedback 3 Teleconference guidelines 3.1 Recording and sharing 3.2 Publicizing 3.3 Participation requirements 3.4 Roster 3.5 Other 4 Moving forward 5 Wikimania 2007 6 Wikitionary and Wikispecies interface 7 Next step 7.1 Critique from -tech on IRC 8 alternative to one server for everyone 9 Don't laugh, let's Play Wikiversity! 10 Cost 11 More feedback 12 Recorded track of pronunciation 13 Forums 14 Have a look on this 15 Technical Quotes 16 Prototype Sandbox Server 17 More then a sandbox 18 Availability for all Wikiversities ? 19 Use in learning computational chemistry

[edit] Discuss what is needed

[edit] CS Dept. would like to have resources for coursework

Rather than give out regular accounts for computing coursework, how about a web interface where students could submit project files. The server compiles and runs the program and then emails the results to the student. It wouldn't work for every language or for GUI software, but shell accounts wouldn't work with GUI software either. It would be sort of like the old mainframe days where folks would submit their decks and then wait for their output. Dmclean 04:36, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] There has been talk about Collaborative Computing

This might be the ideal spot for research and live testing of such a component.

Don't we have a sandbox sever somewhere on mediawiki?--Rayc 20:44, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Rayc, there is the toolbox server and test wikis, but nothing which currently allows us to play with some other kinds of educational and facilitation research/software, as far as I'm aware. If you know more, please let me know. Historybuff 06:00, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Feedback

This page is looking much better than it originally did (and apologies for taking so long in replying). Still, I'd say that the more detail here, the better. It's still pretty vague on exactly what kinds of activities (apart from synchronous communication) the server would be used for. When it says "So Computer Science lesson work can be done", I'm left wondering, what kind(s) of computer science lesson work? Are there any materials here on Wikiversity that might show me what access to a server might facilitate? I'm also thinking, would this work be useful for the MediaWiki developer community? Could this be used in a way to give people practical experience of coding, etc.? I think it also needs to be clear about who would be managing this project - both the physical hardware end, and the use of it. Pardon my ignorance here if it's apparent, but this is what flashes through my mind when I read "Giving out limited access accounts to "students"". Who will have shell access? And I dunno, but the paranoiac in me asks: if it gets hacked, what damage can be done? The more of these kinds of questions answered in advance the better (while, of course, hoping that this can be a real resource - with the flexibility to really put it to good, educational, use). I think that good proposals (even though this isn't necessarily a proposal page - yet) do people's initial imagination work for them - so that they can get to the interesting imagination parts, like "ooh yes, imagine what we could do if we had that.." I'd help here if I knew how, but so far, I haven't got to that stage. If you could help me there, that would be great. :-) Cormaggio ^beep 09:33, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

One obvious example of of a CS-related learning project that could use the sanbox server is Linux Server Administration (assuming it will be Linux). We can also install support for various Programming Languages both compiled and interpreted. There's much to discuss here. --CQ 11:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Teleconference guidelines

The Wiki Campus Radio project (wiki radio) can serve as an example of how the Wikiversity community would make use of of a server.

We are using borrowed resources from a non-wikimedia project to conduct some VoIP teleconferences to discuss the Sandbox Server. These are quite informal and experimental at this time and are generally for brainstorming and proposal refinement. The project page shall be used as the agenda and should reflect changes in the consensus as we go. We're using IRC to coordinate the conferences in real-time at this time, but we don't want to turn into a cabalish group. (which is what could happen if you don't join the channel)

Please get over your aversion to using the crude IRC protocol and get with the program. Sorry to be so indirectly direct. CQ 16:28, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recording and sharing

In order to share the proceedings of the teleconferences with the broadest possible community, we'll be recording and posting a weekly teleconference audio digest in the wikiversity local image namespace with a filename that fits this format:

Image:Sandbox_Server_teleconference_{{CURRENTWEEK}}.ogg

These must remain viewable by the Internet public, so we must agree on a licencing structure. See Wiki Cmapus Radio and Talk:Wiki Campus Radio for ideas on how this technology is developing.

When we get them edited, digested, polished, transcribed and licensed, they can go to the wikimedia commons.

Barnstars and other acknowlegements had better be given to transcribers and translators. CQ 16:28, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Publicizing

The following is a suggestion by CQ subject to consensus: WikiversityWeekly will be a Current events subsection similar in nature to the WikipediaWeekly project. The idea is to build a self-referencing Weekly News agency within the Wikimedia metacommunity.

NOTE: We have a local WikipediaWeekly page

We should prepare also Monthly, and Quarterly digests to use in other publications, notably Quarto.

Barnstars and other acknowlegements had better be given to transcribers and translators. CQ 16:28, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Participation requirements

Below, we shall begin to compile a list of participant preferences and scheduling parameters. Because we are using so many borrowed resources (mainly because we don't have our own Server), A few restrictions exist by default:

1. You must be registered at a Wikimedia Project.
2. You must be identified by Freenode Services.
3. You had better participate on Wikiversity talk:Sandbox Server (it is how you get "voice")

[edit] Roster

User preferences for teleconferencing database:

Participation level:

• 1. admin (+o channel operator)
  2. active (+v fully voiced)
  3. pledge (+i identified, potentially voiced)
  4. passive (lurking... I don't need voice)

Wikimedia userpage:

• 1. Wikiversity (default)
  2. Wikibooks
  3. Meta
  4. Wikipedia
  5. Wikinews
  6. ...other wikimedia project

Language:

• 1. English (default)
  2. German
  3. French
  4. Spanish

Timezone

• UTC (server default UTC[offset])
• UTC+12 (New Zealand)
• ...
• UTC-12 (Hawaii)

These preferences are used by operators and automatons to keep the system running smoothly

[edit] Other

This is all tentative. Anyone can edit Wikiversity pages! (...unless, of course, they're Protected for some twisted reason...) • CQ 16:28, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moving forward

I took the liberty of promoting the Sandbox Server here. I'm assuming that a web server will be implemented and that it can be used by Web Design students to test their projects. I'm proposing that we go ahead and form a general Server Administration Division to organize departments and learning projects that insures we have a strong knowledge base for running a server. • CQ 02:26, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Wow... really does sound amazing?! In the past I've encouraged learners in our web design course to use XAmp Lite - a free Apache/PHP/MySQL webserver for windows that's easy to setup and run (Mac's and Linux generally have this stuff almost ready to go). That way it requires no administration etc. Not sure how the logistics would work for the wikiversity server but keen to find out! Michaelnelson 03:00, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

It would be nice if we could offer some space in a lightweight manner to web students. Depending on how things are structured, the webspace could be very light in admin needs. Once a student registers for a class, their webspace would be automagically generated, and once they are done it could be recycled. Might that approach work?

All that would require is a server admin to login and set the account up. With WHM or something that would barely take a minute. Also should bear in mind that small websites (consisting of a few html/php pages) take up a negligible amount of space on the server - with a 80GB hard disk (being the minimum specified) we would easily have room for dozens if not hundreds of CS students to have their own slice of webspace. This is a really decent idea. Xenon 16:13, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd prefer not to use WHM quite yet -- it might be a good idea to get some of that software for learning projects, though. I'll probably start a learning project to write some tools to generate the accounts when we are there, though.

Thanks for the support -- it's always nice to have a new face with new ideas. Historybuff 03:48, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Further to moving forward, if people could chime in about Wikiversity:Sandbox_Server#Hardware_specs, it would be helpful. Historybuff 14:04, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikimania 2007

OK. In response to Fuzheado's proposal at w:Wikipedia:WikiProject_WikipediaWeekly/Wikimania_2007, and to follow up on Cormac's ideas on that talk page, I've begun a Wikimania page here. Involving the Sandbox Server in Wikimania might could propel this proposal along a bit. In my view, several things need to be done to position ourselves for such an impetus:

• Start seeing this as a project rather than a proposal
• Step up content development for Topic:Server administration
• Get more VoIP testing and development done
• Create an Asterisk (Asterisk) learning project
• Create an Icecast (Icecast) learning project
• Integrate all of the above with the Sandbox Server project

That's the top of the list from my angle. CQ 23:30, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

From my perspective, it's a "proposal" until we have our first user logged in. After chatting with some of the people that have some say, I get the feeling it's a "when" and not an "if", but nothing is guaranteed.

As far as "project" goes, we definately have to demonstrate we have what it takes to get this up to snuff and keep it running. There is lots of room for learning projects to get this done, and we should start pushing forward on them ASAP. Historybuff 04:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikitionary and Wikispecies interface

Anyway dont know if this is a right place, but... If we have to teach or study and we would like to use a dictionary or "taxonomical" dictionary more suitable interface is needed. I think those to wiki projects written above are run on not suitable software - so a new server can helpl also.--Juan 12:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Juan, are you thinking about the devlopment of new software, or adapting something currently existing to better do the job? Historybuff 16:25, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, I dont know these softwares or ideas connected with Sandbox Server, but if I am thinking about e.g. dictionary. It is not problem to edit a mask for the browser to WikiMedia Software by html script or others. The problem is to store its databases in WikiMedia Software. It is like to brush my teeth by feet. I also spoke to guys at Wikispecies and they would really find usefull, more suitable software. So I thought if it could be possible to run it on Sandbox Server. E.g. I have my own databases in MicrosoftExcel - its a very friendly environment, but not open! - and one character is linked by others in row, column and I try to give them anoter dimensions via colours.--Juan 14:12, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Ah, you are literally looking for a "sandbox". Interesting. We wouldn't be able to support Excel directly, but maybe through some import filter magic. I like the idea ... we should flesh the idea out a bit more here, and then add it to the formal proposal. Historybuff 04:37, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, only thing which is needed to have a simple databese with a tables (rows and columns). Or if the browser can get the words from Wikitionary? But I am not sure, this should be standarizade list. I may found a project based on Spanish language vocabulary, but there is a need to set format. E.g. casa = house, pero = but, trabajar = work. I dont know.--Juan 18:56, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi Juan. I'm not sure on the timeline for this server -- if your need is pressing, we might be able to find you another home. We could have a server tomorrow, or not until Summer, and I don't want your project to be delayed waiting for us. Historybuff 23:46, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Until Summer? Sounds fast to me. I know thats a run for a long distance of course. I am just splashing on you ideas in here. Anyway I have found on Spanish this: Spanish/Bilingual Spanish-English Dictionary and I think it will not be a problem. We may use comertional dictionaries, but also wictionary or program king of javascript.--Juan 16:48, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Next step

What we need is to find out how we formally request this from the WMF. There has been some informal discussions, but we need to press forward and get some commitment.

Everyone I've spoken with (informally) has offered support for the idea. Now, we need to turn support into a real physical machine. Historybuff 23:53, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Critique from -tech on IRC

Some info from a discussion in wm-tech. An outside perspective.

why would this server need a dvd-r drive? and kvm over IP sucks.. use a text LOM console [LOM == lights out module] no chance in anyone coming in to rotate media for you.

In a nutshell ... we need to not expect anyone will ever be able to do anything on the box on a periodic basis. And we must make sure the box takes up as little WMF resources as possible. Historybuff 01:55, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] alternative to one server for everyone

On one hand, I agree that giving students learning Topic:Web_design and Topic:Computer Networks access to a web server would be really nice.

However, I think using some remote server to teach students a particular programming language is a mistake. You learn faster when you Wiki:ProgramComputersYouCanUnplug. What possible benefit would the sandbox server have, over letting students use their own computers?

Instead of one sandbox server for all of Wikiversity, I think it would be more interesting if "we" set up several sandbox servers -- not only making them available to students, but also training (not necessarily the same) students to set up a server properly.

Aren't people in Topic:Computer Networks and Linux Server Administration already learning how to set up web servers with adequate security measures?

I have bought several textbooks that each cost more than a used PC, a PC more than adequate to host 10 or so students. Perhaps some of our Linux Server Administration and Topic:Computer Networks students will consider buying such a PC just for that class (using the money they saved by using Wikibooks / Wikiversity), using it for hands-on training during class. Instead of making utterly useless (although educational) homework assignments, perhaps one series of assignments to the Topic:Computer Networks students and/or Linux Server Administration students would result in each of those students setting up a web server, connecting it to the internet (perhaps using one of the free w:dynamic DNS services), and giving 10 or so other students (some of them Topic:Web_design students) accounts on it.

In the worst case, that machine gets trojaned, we give that Topic:Computer Networks student an F in security, that student unplugs the machine and erases everything on it, and 10 or so Topic:Web_design students are surprised, and waste literal *minutes* switching over to some other machine. (A smart web design student will find accounts on 2 independent machines, in case one of them goes offline for any reason).

That is much better than one huge server intended to support every student at the wikiversity -- if that goes down for any reason, then everyone who uses it is inconvenienced, and it will probably be *hours* before it is fixed and they can finish their assignments.

I volunteer to host the first 10 web design students who ask me on my Talk page.

--DavidCary 00:00, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Interesting idea. The current sandbox proposal isn't just for Web hosting -- that is just one function. And I will say, from experience, it's much more difficult to co-ordinate a few machines then it is to administrate one machine. Unless we come up with a boilerplate install, then each machine could be a different flavor of Unix (or even of Windows), with different server side pieces installed and different modules. It could quickly get confusing or worse for even web students, where things "work" on one server and don't on another.

The idea of the Sandbox server it to have a permanent spot where people can work. We should endevour to build something available and robust, and something that is well hosted.

That said, I'm not trying to discourage you, as the Sandbox Server is not a reality, and I would be glad for at least 10 web students to have a home. Have you left a note there? Historybuff 15:32, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Have I left a note at Topic_talk:Web_design ? Oooh, good idea ... done.

it's much more difficult to co-ordinate a few machines then it is to administrate one machine. You are right. However, in my experience, rather than build one do-everything machine, I have found it easier to set up one machine that is just a firewall, another machine for software development (and so is expected to crash often), another machine that is just a web server, another machine that is just a mail server, etc. That way when I am working in one area, I don't have to worry about the possibility of messing up those other functions.

build something available and robust Are you saying that students who are just one lesson away from graduating from our Topic:Server administration and Topic:Computer Networks courses are unable to set up a adequately "available and robust" systems? (Those courses are inadequate *now*, with most of those lessons mere stubs, but I hope it will change in the future). Or are you saying that you know someone who can set up a machine such that it never, ever crashes or otherwise becomes unavailable?

I hope that (compared to One Big Sandbox) the educational experience of building a server and supporting 10 or so real users, and the reliability benefits of having geographically-distributed servers, will outweigh the extra "difficulty" and "confusion" involved.

--DavidCary 13:09, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

"What possible benefit would the sandbox server have, over letting students use their own computers?" <-- The learning model for Wikiversity is heavily biased towards a heavy role for collaboration. Sure, people can all go off and do most things on their own PC, but then you do not have a common space where people learn to collaborate. --JWSchmidt 13:48, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I think we can experiment with both approaches, in fact. Some services we want available to a wide audience almost always -- for those services, we really do want one central server, with a bunch of admins looking over it. For others, we may well be able to use something like small servers.

I do see the sandbox server as an experiment, and I would hope if was successful we might be able to do further work in this area. But, if we don't try, we'll never know what might be possible. Historybuff 03:15, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Don't laugh, let's Play Wikiversity!

A MUD program provides a virtual world and characters people can take on and explore. A MOO turns gaming into Education with few limits. For example, certain rooms can have DJ's who stream media, others for voip. Although the default protocol is telnet, any other can be used. The advantages are:

• Users never access the server directly, accounts are created within MOO.

• The Wikiversity can be mapped out as a physical world, complete with Schools, Classes, and Courses, Projects, etc.

• A student may have one or more characters. Each character belongs to a school and assigned to one or more courses/projects.

• Students collaborate in building the world through object oriented programming in MOO itself, such as interactive items, mobiles (robots), and even economic, legal, and behavioural subsystems.

• Room (course) descriptions can be multilingual.

• Teachers (Wizards) oversee the world with the power to intervene, mediate, and educate when neccessary.

• Backend interfaces to wikiversity or student websites allows controlled updates.

a Free hosting site (The preceding unsigned comment was added by PeterMG (talk • contribs) .)

Wow - what a great idea! This is the kind of thing that might just explode (in a good way). :-) Cormaggio ^talk 13:14, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cost

Just on a practical note, how much is what's needed likely to cost? How about pricing a number of options, new and second-hand, and listing them here? Also (and I think I saw this above), if this is really going too slowly within the WMF, could this be written up into an external (ie extra-Wikimedia) grant? Cormaggio ^talk 16:13, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, after getting the breezy response from some we've been shopping with, I'd like to entertain a third option -- renting (or leasing). If it's too hard or too far outside the box for some to think about putting it "near" WMF stuff, let's take that out of the equation. Comments? Historybuff 05:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More feedback

Ok, here's some thoughts on the page - just to try getting it a bit sharper..

Under "Needs":

• "This will be a series of case studies, to explore various methods of collaboration and learning."

This could be phrased better - how about: "This server will be put to different uses in Wikiversity, in which the focus is on facilitating collaborative and active learning - and research will be carried out in order to feed this learning back into how this server can be best put to use in a series of case studies."? However, I wonder if this kind of stuff should be in the introduction, which would be the rationale..?

Under "Assessment":

• "The Toolserver requires an application process (which would be cumbersome for students) and is probably more restrictive in what it could offer students. (The toolserver admins reasonably assume that since their audience is limited, their security doesn't have to be as stringent)."

These sentences are a bit confusing - is the toolserver more or less restrictive security-wise than the sandbox server? Also, how is the toolserver more restrictive in what it could offer students? Spell this out a bit more - can you think of examples?

Under "Audio video projects":

• "Idea is to connect people who are at large distances"

Don't we already do that? :-) It needs to be clear what kinds of connection are being talked about - ie clarify the type of project that will be worked on, preferably linking with an example on Wikiversity.

Under "giving out limited access account to students":

• "So Computer Science lesson work can be done"

What lesson work? Are there some concrete examples of, say, 3 tasks that learners could be engaged in? (Describe each task in one or two sentences - try make it clear to a non-so-techie. :-))

Also, I don't know why "Email access for all lesson participants" and "Facilitating multi-lingual communication" is here - it doesn't seem to be about giving "access", and I wonder if it's really the best use of resources when people can get free email, MSN, IRC etc elsewhere?

Technical details

I actually think the technical details could be brought back to this page (except for perhaps the previous servers bought, which can be moved to this talk page). Unless it's going to get very detailed, it doesn't seem to need to split off, and there are interesting things there, like "administration" that are of general interest. And speaking of which..

• "Initial setup will be done by the volunteers associated with the Computer Science school, after the operating system is installed by onsite personnel."

Ok (naive question), so does this mean that there will have to be someone at the server co-lo that does this, or can a server be procured with this in place?

• "The computer science school will nominate a few volunteers.."

I think it would be good to be specific here - insofar as to name at least two people (preferably more) who are willing and capable to deal with this from the word "go!"

• "A server administration department has been initialized.."

I like this - as much focus on learning as possible - on different levels :-)

Overall, I think this proposal is mainly missing a costing/budget - as well as clear descriptions of the kinds of learning activities that people can engage in. On costing, is it possible to give an indication of the cost of different scenarios (ie second-hand/new, more/less powerful)? Perhaps correlate this with the administration issue - ie whether a second-hand server is likely to give the administrative autonomy required for this project. Spell it out!

Ok, that's my shpeel for now. Onwards and upwards... Cormaggio ^talk 22:31, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I've let this simmer a bit (and haven't had the time I'd have liked to look it back over). I'll do a bit of brainstorming here, and then we can tweak the real page. I'll address points in order.

• Needs - I don't mind merging or rewriting. Should we just dyke out everything that isn't in a section, to make it hang together better? I've been twiddling bits, it might make sense to just redo the layout.
• Assessment - How's this for a rewrite: "The Toolserver requires an application process (which would be cumbersome for students) and is more limited in what it could offer students. The toolserver is precious to other WMF projects, and our box should have an experimental feel. We intend to host things like interactive voice (WCR, language learning projects), video (Wikiversity the Movie, Tutorials) and other types of experimental communications projects."
• Audio video projects - "For example, WCR and our Wikimania learning projects, as well as future co-operation with wikinews and other Wiki projects. We also hope to facilitate distance learning by means other then text in this manner."
• giving out limited access account to students - The most obvious part of this is to complete programming assignments, which could be in a variety of languages. We could also offer collaboration assignments which would otherwise be difficult or impossible. I'm not sure what the "e-mail" part was supposed to be, but even learner to learner e-mail could help. Multi-lingual communication could be inter-wikiversity (eg EN-FR), but the idea was to put "native" or "advanced" speakers in touch with "learners", to help them with spoken language.
• Technical - I'm happy to return it or transclude it, but I'm hoping we can focus on the rationale/needs and have the technical "at the ready" if we get the green light.
  • does this mean - This touches on the Lights out management. I think it's reasonable to assume we'll get some help, either from co-lo staff or WMF for the server setup, but beyond that we should assume we're on our own.
  • insofar as to name at least two people - amidaniel has indicated a willingness, and so am I. We both have a few years of professional (ie paid) experience at running servers. Once the ball gets rolling, I'm sure we won't have a shortage of helpers.
  • A server administration department has been initialized. - CQ gets the credit here, and we'll call it "System Administration", but it will be a learning project. Our idea is to both use this as a learning and a teaching tool.

I'll add some more costing info, and do some more tweaking soon. Historybuff 05:53, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recorded track of pronunciation

Hi, this is anoter need I see. When I am recording pronunciation of a foreign language, it is a very hard work. There are two way. I can record each word to the separate file, or record all words to one track and then cut the tract into separate parts. The problem is that if I would like to recorde hundreds of words it eats a lot time. So is there a way how to help with this? I saw some games they are having more different sounds on the same track separated by silence.--Juan 17:25, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi Juan. Have you seen the Shtooka Project? I was referred to that project when I talked with OmegaWiki folks about the very problem you describe. I'm thinking that functionality for recording and playing pronunciations can be extended from the Sandbox Server. Something to consider. -- CQ 19:16, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Forums

And this is another idea. I know, that we can use MediaWiki to create a forum, but it is difficult and anyone can lost when replying. So what about to develope something like that. Or maybe we maight instal Freeware forums on a new server? It would be nice to connect good things from MediaWiki with good thinks of forums software.--Juan 17:27, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

That's an idea, but what would we use the forums for? All relevant discussion can be done here on the wiki or on IRC. Offtopic discussion isn't exactly a productive use for a new server. Xenon 17:54, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

In the forums we can share and brainstorm ideas of students. I dont want to have a chat, but forum, were people can easily share pictures and documents and they disscuss the problems. E.g. a project forum or a subject forum. Students can ask others their questions easilly or they can brainstorm their ideas with others.--Juan 13:43, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Have a look on this

I dont exactly know how it works, but it sounds to develop same opportunities as Sandbox Server: http://www.ces.net/about/--Juan 12:36, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

For me, that is a dead link. --JWSchmidt 13:19, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. It is. You should follow the tables on the left.--Juan 16:50, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Technical Quotes

Alright, I went ahead and looked up some quotes. I have many more than I'm providing here, but I believe these will likely be more in line with what we want:

Minimal configuration

Rackform nServ A236
CPU:  1 x Opteron 2210 (1.8GHz, Dual Core, Skt F, 2 x 1MB L2 Cache )
RAM:  1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR2-667 Registered ECC - Interleaved
NIC:  Dual 10/100/1000 Mbps NICs - Integrated
Management:  None
PCI Riser Options:  PCIe (For PCI-X Options, Please Contact our Sales Department)
PCIe x8:  None
Low-Profile PCIe x8:  None
Hot-Swap Drive - 1:  80GB Western Digital SE (1.5Gb/s, 7.2Krpm, 8MB Cache) SATA
Optical Drive:  Low-Profile 8x DVD +/- RW
Front Input:  None
Power Supply:  560W - PFC - Auto Switching 100-240V
Rail Kit:  Sliding Rail Kit
OS:  Fedora Linux Core 6 - 32-bit - Preload, No Media
Warranty: Standard 3 Year - Return to Depot - Advanced Component Exchange
Configured Power: 188 Watts, 193 Volt-Amps, 643 BTU/h, 1.8 Amps (110V), 0.9 Amps (208V) 

Price per unit: $1,499.00

Much more ideal configuration

Rackform nServ A236
CPU:  2 x Opteron 2214 (2.2GHz, Dual Core, Skt F, 1MB/Core L2 Cache )
RAM:  8GB (8 x 1GB) DDR2-667 Registered ECC - Interleaved
NIC:  Dual 10/100/1000 Mbps NICs - Integrated
Management:  None
PCI Riser Options:  PCIe (For PCI-X Options, Please Contact our Sales Department)
PCIe x8:  None
Low-Profile PCIe x8:  None
Hot-Swap Drive - 1:  80GB Western Digital SE (1.5Gb/s, 7.2Krpm, 8MB Cache) SATA
Hot-Swap Drive - 2:  80GB Western Digital SE (1.5Gb/s, 7.2Krpm, 8MB Cache) SATA
Hot-Swap Drive - 3:  80GB Western Digital SE (1.5Gb/s, 7.2Krpm, 8MB Cache) SATA
Optical Drive:  Low-Profile 8x DVD +/- RW
Front Input:  Front Serial / USB ports
Power Supply:  560W - PFC - Auto Switching 100-240V
Rail Kit:  Sliding Rail Kit
OS:  Fedora Linux Core 6 - 32-bit - Preload, No Media
Warranty: Standard 3 Year - Return to Depot - Advanced Component Exchange
Configured Power: 337 Watts, 346 Volt-Amps, 1151 BTU/h, 3.1 Amps (110V), 1.7 Amps (208V) 

Price per unit: $2,532.00

Some observations: Memory and physical storage are cheap as hell. About $51 for each additional 80GB HD and (depending upon the configuration) anywhere from $50-$100 per GB of RAM. The primary money guzzler (as well as power guzzler, which may well be important) are CPUs. I personally think that 1 dual core 1.8GHz will probably suffice for our needs, though in my optimal quote above I included 2 2.2GHz duals, which is probably quite severe overkill for our needs. In any case, WMF is quite used to shelling out anywhere from $50k-$100k per server purchase, so I'm sure the difference between 2.5k and 1.5k won't even make them lift an eyebrow--nonetheless, we should still only ask for it if we really need it. I don't have any pricing on VOIP or tape drives, but I can't imagine we're talking much -- these will most likely be things we will definitely need. Thoughts? AmiDaniel (talk) 18:23, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Prototype Sandbox Server

To assist in proving the actual viability of the site, I am happy to supply hosting/ftp and a few gigs of hosting so we can have a working preview of some sort so we can see how things would work. If you want this, just drop me a line at symode09 (at) >nospam< hotmail.com 17:35, 6 October 2007 (UTC)~

[edit] More then a sandbox

I think if we do this project, it should not only be a experimental project but, a project for alternative medias/projects out of wiki's but in the foundation's scope ie. broadcasting wikimania, blogs for projects and other things which cannot be easily done on wikimedia wiki's Symode09 18:06, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Availability for all Wikiversities ?

Since I guess also other Wikiversities could have access to this, why not give administration also to the different custodians there ? This could for some cases cover 24h service for the users - in case something needs to be done on the server. Imagine there are 5 WVs around, if you make advertisement there also, might speeden the funding. Though then I am not sure how it is with accessing then from all WV - could bring a serverlaod problem ? or people argue when they can use it ? ----Erkan Yilmaz (talk ?, wiki blog) 16:54, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Use in learning computational chemistry

I strongly support having such a server as proposed here. I have been developing internet learning of computational chemistry for about 13 years, and I want to put a lot of these materials on to wikiversity. One of the innovations of these materials is the ability for students to run real computational codes from a web page. Running the codes on the server would be ideal. I have already discussed this on the e-mail list and with User:Draicone. Without the ability to do this, there would be no point in putting many of these materials on wikiversity. --Bduke 22:54, 14 December 2007 (UTC)