User:Erkan Yilmaz/observations

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This is an "open blog" - since 2007.
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Contents

2014 July 25 - great interconnection in the past[edit]

I just realize how interconnected everything was back then

looking back now:
  • I have more positive feelings towards this (time)
  • it was a very productive, creative and inspiring time
  • Wikiversity contributed to this

And my love for "the wiki" is still alive :-)

I run my own Mediawiki since >5 years
and history shows that it's the only software surviving my many software experiments
[1], [2]

This above made me prompt for a comment at my PLE diary: User:Erkan_Yilmaz/PLE#2014_July


2014 January 21 - reading group about Noam Chomsky[edit]

currently preparing this: Noam Chomsky reading group


observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2013 June

You are invited to add your comments (e.g. but my perception of this issue is different) - please sign anything you add (howto Wikiversity:Signature).


2013 June 6 - remove custod rights (inactivity) + rename to admin (from Pedell, custodian)[edit]

... and here we go again :-(

German Wikiversity is voting about (de: Wikiversity:Cafeteria#Vom_Pedell_zum_Admin):



2013-06-10: unfortunately it's processed :-(
From discussion page of de: user:Frank Schulenburg:
Frank asks at end that his user + talk page should be deleted and about the lost potential by doing this all

Neuregelung der erweiterten Benutzerrechte bei Inaktivität[edit]

Hallo Frank Schulenburg, nach dem Meinungsbild zur Änderung der Regeln für Pedelle auf Wikiversity heißen die Pedelle von nun an, wie auf den anderen Wikimedia-Projekten auch, Administratoren, und sie verlieren ihre erweiterten Rechte als Admin und Bürokrat nach einem Jahr Inaktivität. Minimum sind zehn Bearbeitungen pro Jahr.

Vor dem Entzug der Adminrechte ist dem Benutzer Gelegenheit zur Stellungnahme binnen zwei Wochen, das heißt bis spätestens zum 23. Juni 2013 zu geben. Bei fruchtlosem Ablauf der Frist werden Dir Deine Adminrechte aberkannt werden. Dafür bitten wir Dich um Verständnis.--Aschmidt (Diskussion) 11:44, 9. Jun. 2013 (CEST)

Lieber Aschmidt,
wenn ich mir manchmal die aktuellen Entwicklungen im Wikimedia-Universum anschaue, dann frage ich mich, inwieweit die Communities überhaupt lernfähig sind.
  • Inaktive Administratoren? Mensch, ich hätte da zunächst einmal an das ungeheure Potential gedacht, was da womöglich schlummert. Da war also jemand, der vor Jahren einmal ziemlich aktiv war. Edits über Edits gemacht hat. Und viele Stunden seiner persönlichen Freizeit investiert hat. Die Einstellung dieser Person zu Dingen wie Freiem Wissen scheint ja damit vorhanden zu sein. Auch scheint es sich um jemanden zu handeln, der bereit ist zu ehrenamtlicher Arbeit. Begeisterung für Freies Wissen und die Bereitschaft, Freizeit für dieses Ziel einzusetzen – zwei Voraussetzungen, die auf nur wenige Menschen in unserer Gesellschaft zutreffen. Wäre es da nicht naheliegend gewesen, diesen Menschen zurückzugewinnen? Alleine der Versuch wäre doch viel lohnender, als auf Hunderte neuer Nutzer zuzugehen, sie anzusprechen und herauszufinden, ob sie ähnliche Veranlagungen mitbringen. Stattdessen gibt es einen Tritt in den Hintern und irgendwelche "Rechte" werden entzogen. Gute Gründe dafür gibt es ja nicht – Missbrauch ist nicht zu befürchten. Warum also? Die Erfahrungen in der Wikipedia haben zudem gezeigt, dass man mit solchen Maßnahmen nur potentielle Rückkehrer für immer vergrault. Hat der Entzug der Adminrechte bei Inaktivität in der Wikipedia einen positiven Effekt gehabt? Nein. Soll man hier in einem Schwesterprojekt dem Beispiel folgen? … na, die Antwort kannst Du dir ja selber geben.
  • Begrüßungsbot? Hier liegt die Sache ja noch eindeutiger. Wir wissen doch nun schon seit vielen Jahren, dass neue Benutzer sich durch entpersonalisierte Ansprachen von Bots eher abgestoßen fühlen. Wer hat schon Lust, gleich an der Haustür von einer Maschine empfangen zu werden? Die Einführung von Begrüßungsbots in der Wikipedia hat in einem signifikanten Maße dazu geführt, dass potentielle Neuautoren gleich auf dem Absatz kehrt gemacht haben und dem Projekt verloren gegangen sind. Anders herum wissen wir schon seit Jahren und aus unzähligen Gesprächen mit langjährigen Wikipedianer, wie genau sie sich noch an ihre ersten Momente in der Wikipedia und die freundliche, individuelle Begrüßung durch einen Mitautoren erinnern können. Und wir wissen auch, wieviel ihnen das bedeutet hat und wie sehr dies zu ihrer weiteren Motivation beigetragen hat. Da war jemand, der sich für ihre Bearbeitung eines Artikels interessiert hat. Der ihnen im Idealfall in freundlicher Weise die Regeln erklärt hat. Oder sie zum Weitermachen motiviert hat. Warum also dem schlechten Beispiel der Wikipedia folgen und einen Bot einsetzen?
Mal ganz allgemein gefragt: was um Himmels willen können wir tun, um solches Wissen weiterzugeben und die Wiederholung von Fehlern der Vergangenheit zu vermeiden?
Für meine Teilnahme an Wikiversity ist nun also ein Ende gekommen. Ich bitte dich, die Deadministrierung vorzunehmen und sowohl meine Benutzerseite als auch meine Diskussionsseite hier in der Wikiversity zu löschen. Ich werde die vorliegende Seite nach dem Abspeichern dieser Nachricht auch nicht mehr ansehen und den Account stillegen. Falls Du an einem weiteren Gedankenaustausch interessiert bist, dann schick mir bitte eine Email oder kontaktiere mich in der Wikipedia. Ich stehe gerne für ein Telefonat oder Ähnliches zur Verfügung.
Mit den besten Wünschen -- (Diskussion) 15:46, 9. Jun. 2013 (CEST)



observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2012 December

You are invited to add your comments (e.g. but my perception of this issue is different) - please sign anything you add (howto Wikiversity:Signature).


2012 December 26 - started to collect chats about Wikiversity[edit]

In the hope others can use them (somehow) and I don't have to retype everything again...
Link


observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2012 September

You are invited to add your comments (e.g. but my perception of this issue is different) - please sign anything you add (howto Wikiversity:Signature).


2012 September 28 - the trust factor[edit]

I find this funny:
a user who had lots of trouble - unfortunately - becoming Wikiversity custodian on de.WV in 2008 is now on election for bureaucrat

So much to the voices who do not trust at begin

2012 September 27 - wikis and fear[edit]

I was reminded again that a successful project starts by eliminating the fear in the community ...

Some advices I gave during the chat:

  • first start your learning projects, than trying to change the whole Wikiversity (WV)
    • this leads also to good examples to show to new people arriving at Wikiversity
  • understand people by asking them about their definition (of learning)
    • I am wondering now if the concept of learning is perhaps for the majority of people fuzzy and can only be understood over time better?
      • e.g. by seeing how oneself and others attempt their learning
      • I think it will help people if they review their learning (it must not be formal, they can start it as a blog in their preferred PLE (personal learning environment))
  • I also see after so many years that "we" did a bad job in transmitting the mission of WV for future generations
    • though there can be different reasons for that: internal (user did not see the link to WV mission; ...), external (people did not bother to make a link on popular places; there is no understanding or compromise of what is the mission actually; ...)
    • I assume here that the en.WV had probably the chance to influence this much since back then we were quite active and other WVs were influenced very likely (e.g. also to select other paths than en.WV)
    • the other question would be how to do this (better?) in the beta Wikiversity (where new WVs are nurtured)

2012 September 9 - create some positive news for WV[edit]

  • I find this troubling (last time someone added content beside me, was 2 years ago) - can someone point me where is done active PR for Wikiversity lately? I see on the microblogging scene the usual WV bot pasting links, but what else?
    My response there may sound a little bit non-politically correct, but hey, come on ...
  • MediaWiki:Sitenotice: the last time someone really added content to it was 10 months ago [3]


observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2012 May

You are invited to add your comments (e.g. but my perception of this issue is different) - please sign anything you add (howto Wikiversity:Signature).


2012 May 28[edit]

hosting your wiki/blog with a good speed-availability (e.g. on gitorious, github)[edit]

started a small howto on gitorious: your wiki/blog on gitorious

  • though the "no cost"-option comes with a price: you can not post everything you want, see the TOS there
  • it's by no means a new idea, but it's a nice + quick way if you want to just put content out there

see also:


observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2012 February

You are invited to add your comments (e.g. but my perception of this issue is different) - please sign anything you add (howto Wikiversity:Signature).


2012 February 13[edit]

PLE (again)[edit]

Is the question too simple? too dangerous? not relevant? "I don't need a special term like: PLE to help me be happy here in WV"? Who knows... Personal learning environment (PLE) question: retry after 4 months

contacting more people

thoughts about Wikiversity[edit]

So, what do you think WV is for?

The below points show some of my thoughts about what WV (could be|is)

I've noticed over time that concepts like learning, interaction, ... are most of the times blurry for others
some example: a user comes into chat and states: I don't understand what WV is for
discussing + user states: that sounds different than what I read/saw at WV
So? what does this mean?
for the moment I seem to focus on: products and/or/vs interaction
Why products? Because people (tend to) see these first
products is a bad term, better would be: learning resources, but that again blurs probably?

I started this from being unhappy or a more negative feeling after seeing some things yesterday + today

Where might be pointers?[edit]

How much of those are needed for perfect harmony?
  • inside
    • mental models, definitions
  • outside
    • structures people can not change + "obey" those then

changing "inside" is hard or at least not fast possible, but changing form, state is perhaps easier to achieve


"blah blah blah"...[edit]

Can you bend the structure?

The sections here may not always be related, so jump to the next one if you want...

  • Wiki inherits (OOP) problems due to its structure
    • an example: on my own wiki there are no problems. Why? I limit access. So: interaction or thoughts with others lead to (un)happiness?
      • actually it's the (spam) bots I'm unhappy with
    • needs Mediawiki can't fulfill
  • Where should people go instead of WV? other projects (WP, WB, ...) have their goal limitations...
    • and since they decide to be at home here: People try to form things after their (mental) models
      • There's nothing wrong with that, everyone has that right to voice their ideas + execute them
        • see harmony section below
  • Is the learning definition (see 2nd part) again which limits people?
  • "It is about the P (P stands for people and not: pages or process)":
    people still see "only products" and NOT people (interaction)
    • but isn't it again influenced due to software, structure wiki?
      • products are faster to see, realize than interaction
    • it's not only them: I noticed this for me also for a certain aspect AFTER adding the pic here
      • a wiki can just die, it's a normal, natural process: things start and somehow end, what stays from that? Memories? Remains in stone or other less destroyable things?
  • criticizing mental things (models, ... whatever) probably never brings a happy face - short term speaking
    • critizing where? public, private?
    • Who are the people trying to "fix" mental models? (could go into direction like: the one-eyed is King in between blind people)
    • Or: errors done in the past (by whom? teachers, parents, society ...) are to be fixed by WV participants? Even possible?

interaction[edit]

Talk-icon.svg
  • So, are there no successful examples of the so-called interaction after so many years of WV history?
    • There are, but people do not see them
      • So? better marketing?
      • "do not see them" or: "do not WANT TO see them" ? (should be seen less as enemy picture or so)
        • this counts for many sides:
          • admitting it may work: does that mean being wrong? But being wrong is nothing bad: no one if perfect or has all info since humans are limited (a machine/software may have perhaps facts but misses some abilities of humans. So?
            A mix of human + machine/software as a way out?)
          • does one have the time to see the interactions? Everything costs time, so:
            if I do not care about i. then I also do not want to devote time + shut down immediately
  • How could interaction be measured?
    • output: products
      • perhaps good interaction leads to more output?
        • e.g. as stimulator, awakening of creativity?
      • not necessarily: good interaction leads first to thoughts?
        • and these lead to other things, but how can one measure things separately? all connected
      • products reflect only a certain point in time + are already old when I save them
        • readers normally associate the state of a product to the current time frame, but: there has time passed + interaction progressed
          • the past influencing present/future
    • individual feedback
      • like: "I learned something valuable today"
      • but it requires someone to give feedback
        • e.g. from the past courses can be seen teachers/classes are not so willing to give feedback, see here
        • open culture, no blaming for errors or current state of a person
      • must not be direct adressed, could also be in a reflecting way, e.g. in a blog form
  • interactions can not exist alone
    • Chicken or the egg
    • so: trying to achieve harmony?
      • are humans made for harmony?
        • (perhaps in a separate section)
        • in the "good ol' days" many active in WV
        • explosion + many left
          • What do they do now in real life?
          • Their experiences (from explosion) shut down those ideals? Or are working on fulfilling them: elsewhere? Rebooting Wikiversity
          • This is also a result + one of the things the learning platform Wikiversity is for (?)
            • possible dangers: majority <-> minority decisions, manipulation, socket accounts, ...
    • so: additional effort, but then again back to aspect: who gives me the time to achieve WV-wide harmony?
      • A few people do this by spending valuable time
        • Did they get a "Thank you" for that?
        • or more negative things? (when seeing only now as good or bad)
  • Which technology is best for interaction?
    • for each individual different
    • I had to think that chat/IRC is a nice way for me
      • Why? because of its fast/timely feedback possibility?
  • Which solution could be outside of concepts like products, interaction?
    • Is there a solution?
    • it does not end or stop at a point, or?

things which can be done right now - easily[edit]

intro[edit]

These are some options, but: they all require someone doing it.
So: who might do it? and: why?
Do people see this as important?

from chat:

<me> I think people have given up hope in WV
<me> people being also the internal WV people
<me> fighting alone, for oneself
other reasons: general decline in participation Wikimedia wide; "headquarters" not using WV in their new activities, ...
people maturing, analogy perhaps to federation:
1. back then many used identi.ca (because not so "evil" as twitter)
2. since it became more present people also use the software on their own servers
so like: people run now their own wikis

or... people take all for granted?

it's free so I do not have to care about it
let's misuse it? tragedy of the commons?
à propos misusing: people might see a blog or this blog also as misusing. But still it's possible (right now) in WV to do this (one of the freedoms)
I could also write it somewhere else, e.g. in my own wiki, bu then it feels like it's not belonging to WV anymore (OK, it could be imported again), but it gives additional burdens, e.g. when someone wants to add a comment, must register account...
steps[edit]
Let's get this sh.t started...
  • showing the good parts of WV
  • motivate others to talk more about "their learning" (aspects, definitions, ...)
  • there are no efforts anymore to do things over the various WVs :-(
    • including all of the WVs for a global vision, task, ...
    • I mean there are few contributors + WV participants might understand the situation better + more willingly help out, give feedback...
    • Perhaps initiating again Wikiversity:Reports might be easier
    • a propos vison: Wikiversity:Vision
  • see here: blogging, using language that encourages, summarizing task force, ...

2012 February 3: reconstruction of the past is...[edit]

Archeology? I don't care, we're here only for da money. NO one will notice anyway what's wrong or right
  • ...hard:
I mean I've problems in my life time to find out why these peaks happened:
blog
PLE
So I decided to not believe any archeologist who reconstructs something from a few thousand years back ;-)
  • ...attached with emotions:
Had to think of the past - wonder where all the guys are now? made me feel sad (I just saw that the below chapter also includes the word sad)


But some hours ago something positive:
had some nice grins when reading the BaB page - WV pages as time machine is just wonderful (see about time conservation: 2011-10-24 in the PLE)
I wonder if the humour is still alive?


2012 February 2 - it is sad when a wiki dies/disappears[edit]

many of us are here already, it's cozy

Netknowledge.org is not accessible anymore (http 403) since about 1 month I think.
I've emailed people for another link. If all fails, hopefully someone can give me a dump so I can host it in my wiki with same licence.

2012-02-13
no feedback yet
just reading here and can't find cached version (google or archive.org (The machine that serves this file is down. We're working on it.)) of H.'s Research:User editing patterns and collaboration
  • Hi Erkan! Unfortunately no. I have been taking part in the Stanford online course experiment, the first of which is here. I am coming to realise that we may need to go beyond wikimedia to have a functioning wikiversity, since, for example, the guys will never turn on the youtube extension. Hillgentleman | //\\ |Talk 16:04, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, the extension freedom is a problem. I could imagine with some fancy features, people could turn their "boring" courses into nice things (e.g. wikieducator is more courageous in using extensions).
On the other hand: NK did not work out + is actually gone now, wikademia has no active contributions
I guess the answer is: looking at all of the similar efforts and pick the best things and start "something" with those features
Or: just join the best initiative, since building something up alone needs more time :-( ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat + Identi.ca 16:33, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
2012-09-08
  • I'm starting to recover that wiki's content here, though I think a major part is lost forever :-(
  • after 90 pages there come thoughts like this:
    • people who look at it might think it was an amateurish thing, but remember: you see pages only from cache from its beginning of NetKnowledge :-(
    • which reminds me how any work in its early stages (be it on paper, virtual, e.g. wiki) must look to others in its baby steps -> praise the learning process one does over time ! :-)

see also[edit]

  • a list of backuped wikis
    • February: 139
    • May 28: 151
    • September 7: 152 (only 1 more)
    • September 26: 153
    • December 12: 153 <- no increase, why ?


2012 February 1: Sandbox server - where are thou?[edit]

Sandbox server: status (not possible to set up for >1 year?) (mailing list)


observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2012 January

You are invited to add your comments (e.g. but my perception of this issue is different) - please sign anything you add (howto Wikiversity:Signature).


2012 January 18: tool to see page views for every WV page[edit]

some examples from en.WV, needs a little polishing and everyone can use online:

and here from the main links from the left navigation:
Wikiversity:Main Page, Wikiversity:Colloquium, Wikiversity:Community Portal, Wikiversity:Browse, Wikiversity:News, Wikiversity:Community projects, Wikiversity:Help desk, Help:Guides

see also[edit]

observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2011 November

You are invited to add your comments (e.g. but my perception of this issue is different) - please sign anything you add (howto Wikiversity:Signature).


2011 November 3 - More than a page? Forget it, won't work for most people... or?[edit]

Come on, give me a break... I can't do all alone.. I heard Sisyphus takes on any task

Had a small thought which I want to note down first + think more about it...

  • (First there was Wikipedia
    • no, there was WikiWikiWeb first
    • ok, enough of that :-) )
  • so... before WV came into play there was Wikibooks (WB)
    • what has WB to do with WV? at begin we had many discussions why forces are split into WV instead helping WB
    • anyways: those discussions reminded me of WB's situation + WV (triggered by my first edit from today)
  • question: How evolved is Wikibooks (WB) - in let's say - terms of contribution now?
    • from my last interactions: not so far evolved
    • todo: look for activity numbers, my interactions may be too old
    • (next question after finishing todo: why did WB not achieve/get more activity?)
  • I'll jump over some mind steps now:
    • hypothesis: any activity involving more than "a page" is too long for editors (familiar with some big wikis - I won't say names now)?
      • you know people find always excuses like: work, family, edit wars, ...
      • so... learning itself will definitely be >1 page (if I may say it in this analogy)
        • 2013-09-23: this sentence is wrong: learning can happen at any size, it may perhaps be true when one sees from the POV of a person who wants to create learning material for others, though not necessarily
      • or to speak with Wikibooks: a book >1 page

so, and now I am thinking...


observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2011 October

You are invited to add your comments (e.g. but my perception of this issue is different) - please sign anything you add (howto Wikiversity:Signature).


2011 October 25 - announcement: I released my book[edit]

I announced it like this:


Nuvola apps kopete.png
Announcement

time to release "My book"

as the title says it's a personal book by Erkan YILMAZ
(though it's collaborative work by currently >40 authors)

He has been contributing to this since 2007
it contains >1200 pages +
has >500k views (in October 2011)

I think you'll be surprised ;-) by it...

read it here

Why btw?[edit]

I find it funny how people nowadays "release" books + want even money for this...
see wikipedia: Standing on the shoulders of giants
This is now a satirical approach to this, but as well shows a little summary what I've been doing with my wiki. I guess I'll need to polish some more things with this...
I think with my WV contributions I could bring it to >5k pages ;-)

I've to look into the book extension if it would actually be possible somehow to get a "book" from "my" WV contributions?

2011 October 24 - share your learning goals[edit]

Wikiversity:Learning goals - last edit 1 year ago :-(

2011 October 24 - emotions while reading an old chat log[edit]

cheapest time machine on this planet, copyright: only Wikiversity

it's about this: Wikiversity:Meetings/Learning on Wikiversity (June 2008, summary for meeting)

here's some short things that came to mind, I did not review this in points of why and how, just the emotions it brought to me, ordered chronologically:

  • Nazi POV (5:41pm-5:42pm)
  • I smiled at some of wknight8111's comments
  • hah, nice to read after so many years: chat log from: 5:58pm - 5:59pm
  • <ErkanYilmaz1> so far .. I like the chat log
<ErkanYilmaz1> it sums pretty nicely up what we thought
<ErkanYilmaz1> and I must say nothing changed from back then
<ErkanYilmaz1> this time preserving aspect of pages is fantastic
  • <ErkanYilmaz1> man, I was genial back then:
<ErkanYilmaz1> [6:46pm] cormaggio: Erkan - the notion of how to include people into the process of learning, when they might first appear to be radical POV's or vandals etc
<ErkanYilmaz1> [6:46pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: well isn't there - assume good faith and don't bite newcomers?

see this edit which shows what I think about reviewing (old things)


2011 October 24 - would now more focus on brick and mortar institutions help WV ?[edit]

Let's start first with:

And now take a look at the RecentChanges

  • when I did: there seems brick + mortar (b+m) activity, but also has been in the past

I remember we created the beta-wikiversity page because it was not so easily visible to see by whom WV is also used (if I remember correct it helped us get the message to people in one of those discussions about shutting down WV, see here).

From what I see there has not been so much effort to identify current b+m institutions (that's also why I asked: any news to present people on Main page - since April 2011?)

My thoughts (hypothesis?)[edit]

  • discussions if a learning resource should stay (as it is) here at WV is caused by a small percentage of WV editors
    • Something like the w:Pareto principle though even smaller, let's say: <1% of editors tend to make 80% of the "hot" discussions?
  • probably it's also often about cases/situations which are not yet experienced here or will not be
  • can the focus on b+m institutions help
    • that those hot discussions become relative?
      (e.g. not only visible by RecentChanges but that "public" places like the Colloquium are filled with other topics e.g. b+m learners have? there are also places like the Help Desk )
    • reputation: WV is not anymore considered a place of "crazy people"/trolls... ?

Why is this?[edit]

internal factors[edit]

  • pride/ego
    • of the editors of those "unfit" considered learning resources?
    • to create something new + to distinguish oneself?
  • personal dislike
  • nothing to do?
  • (no will to) help learners (from brick and mortar institutions)?
    • because they have already an instructor + own internal syllabus?
  • creating a fork costs (time)?
  • one is not really interested to help others to learn (or understand views: theirs/mine)?
  • my definition of learning is different than yours, so I see things in view of this specific learning only?
  • without "hot discussions" it's too boring (e.g. WV not having - for me - good enough learning resources? ;-))
  • ...

external factors[edit]

  • not formulated policy?
  • ...

I'm not saying b+m related topics should have only focus, because individual learning (see Wikiversity:Personal learning environment) plays a role also (if not more, because each editor is (first?) an individual)

feedback by brick + mortar institutions[edit]

I've now contacted some b+m people + asked for their feedback (e.g. [4]), while doing that another thought came to mind:

  • do b+m institutions review (or even more: reuse) other b+m's work here? What do they think of that? They could share each other (better?) feedback because?
    • I mean it's still all here new-land, but I find it good that people step out of their institutions + share OER
  • I also would like to know how people see things in 7 years: e.g. did their work here at WV help that their OWN understanding/efforts develop better?
  • One should not forget the multiplying effect: when b+m use WV this means that the students/participants learn about WV, OER initiatives + they again use it or share with others

2011 October 23 - reconstructing my thoughts (on RFC actions)[edit]

this will probably not be 100% complete (but let's see what can I think of),
it's triggered by a comment here + my thoughts what would help WV greatly (thoughts on learning, PLE)

  • it started with this (15 October)
    • at that time tbh I did not care much if the files would be deleted or not
      • why? because the Sandbox Server (idea) was dead
      • though I've a thought right now: in terms of preserving WV history it should not be deleted + tried to fix so it can stay
    • I was merely concerned people did not use the tools to find out more before requesting a deletion
  • 5h later User:S Larctia deleted the files
    • I was still more concerned about tool usage
    • which resulted in an improvement (summary: ying yang)
    • but did not yet see need to write something
      • I was actually asked if I write something which I declined (I think the emotion back then being: too much effort)
  • concerns about this block (20 October)
    • I didn't want to intervene myself [5] yet, but I saw others contacted SLarctica
    • because my view: blocks do not help in such cases, they can stop spammers for a short time, but that's it
    • thought of as personal gain
  • When I saw SBJ's edit (21 October) I thought I should also write my opinion
    • I think without SBJ's edit I would not have edited on that page besides this (summary comment: re: deletion comment + lazyness? or else?)
    • one reason being: Slarctica redacted before, and with a huge removal like this I was wondering what the mentee would learn from this for the future
  • I remember after posting this: that I adressed only SBJ and not Ottava also, thought about writing both names or removing, but left it anyways
    • perhaps due to adressing me specifically? and therefore fixating only on this?
  • [6]: here I was not sure when I not adress also SLarctica if it was clear what e.g. I meant
  • another thought I had was: if actions from SBJ specifically triggered things by me. Must think if there's (still?) some feelings from back then
  • another thought I had was: that my oppose (which was actually: needs more time to learn) would be used by other parties for their cause :-(
  • private communication between mentor + mentee ("circumstances as ... described"):
    • at begin: I did not find much bad thing here, since some users/situation require this
    • but since it was later on mentioned a few more times I did not find this fair/neutral
      • such things tend to exclude people + they feel left out (either we play open or I don't know what kind of conspiracy theories we can read more later)
      • another thing is: that with limited/less info players tend to make decisions "only" on this info (or worse: imagine the missing info in their terms)
    • so, what would be best in my opinion is: to not mention such private communication
  • one thought here was: epic fail - not a big deal, it's all part of learning. learning in terms of fail or success is not helpful I think

So, if I'd dare to do a summary at this point already:

  • my conscience is not loaded with guilt or so yet
  • not sure how it would be though if Slarctica would not have done a childish thing like blocking that user again (22 October) before leaving <- such things trigger more thoughts like: omg we saved some more trouble for the future

see also[edit]

2011 October 22 - What's (the status on) personal learning environment (PLE)?[edit]

In my view anything (here) can be classified as learning, since it can trigger thoughts. If we stay close just to the words of PLE:

definition[edit]

  • personal
  • well we could say if you write it, it's personal, but it's probably not. One can also "just" attend a course or just do patrolling of RecentChanges, ... I think it gets personal when emotions get in. When one reviews actions + thinks about the why? how?
  • learning
  • see my sentence above
  • environment
  • the environment is the software (Mediawiki MW) with its users? NO, I call any place where I can interact with Wikiversity (WV) editors the environment, so also the WV:Chat. Correct? No, we can also count emails since MW allows that. I know also that some WV editors have external pages/(micro) blogs where I interacted with them. And surely I have not mentioned some others

PLE at other locations[edit]

Let's find out about PLE at other places:

Wikipedia[edit]

year edits editors
2006 1 1
2007 7 2
2010 17 5 + 3 bots
2011 7 4

Wikiversity[edit]

(e.g. at Wikiversity:Personal learning environment):

  • only 5 users have listed themselves here
    • I don't think it's just 5, there are more, but people do not call it PLE
    • Perhaps also they did never hear of the term PLE?
    • Perhaps it would be good to make a PLE template?

Google[edit]

search results for:

search term results (in mio.)
2011 October 22
results (in mio.)
2012 February 13
comment
personal learning environment 67.7 130 (192%)
"personal learning environment" 3.41 1.54 (45%) decrease
PLE "personal learning environment" 1.86 5.42 (343%)
PLE personal learning environment 0.374 0.639 (171%)
PLE "personal learning environment" wikiversity 0.00341 0.0101 (296%)
PLE personal learning environment wikiversity 0.000716 0.00112 (156%)
  • please update this table in the future
  • todo: look more into these
  • edit 2012-02-13: Google trends tells me: "do not have enough search volume to show graphs"

some aspects[edit]

general[edit]

My so called PLE diary is here now available publically for more than 3.5 years. I'd say it's a positive experience to have one. Though at begin I used it just to make some kind of status notices on learning activities/resources. Later I added a section called "What can I do better while walking in the wiki-verse ?" which also involves reviewing how "bad" I interacted. A recent chat reminded me that I'd like to see by more people review activities on how fruitful things on their learning were (what did I learn? where did I not succeed yet? why?). That's what's in my view missing to make WV more distinct as a learning place. I think also starting a blog is a nice way to approach things...

I think for a wiki(versity) newcomer the PLE concept is too blurry? Perhaps they still need to figure out what learning means for them? Perhaps there's also needed some familiarity (with WV)? I mean if they mature here as editors, interactors with others they see the real goal of WV? (yeah, I know, goals are different, but if you do not talk about them, they just stay in your head, ...) Or when they mature they dare more, since in my view WV is just an environment to help one in its learning activities.

data control[edit]

In regards to control of data (e.g. why leave here, since it's sensible data?) time (>3.5 years) has shown that it's quiet and leaves room for your concentration. If someone has another opinion + edits it should be seen as a positive thing + discussed or if I don't have time, revert + make a reminder to that person or let him write his ideas in his own PLE.

unfinishedness[edit]

Another notion of fear may be: others watch me, I should not make a mistake? I should not put something out there that's unfinished? Such thoughts are probably general for some new wiki editors. I can say in a wiki there's hardly a page (aka learning resource) which is 100% final. You'll see with time that such things will not keep your thoughts for long. Just be bold + edit...

sharing: what do I view, where do I click, ...[edit]

Personal data collection: I put this here, but do not run away, it's a thought model. In theory someone having access to the Mediawiki database (e.g. also checkusers) can see what you do here. This is in general bad (but good to find out socks + such things). There was an idea (Research:User editing patterns and collaboration) where people wanted to share their sensible data (e.g. what do I view? paths, editing patterns, ...) because it could provide info on their learning. Also others (researchers, other editors here, ...) could benefit from this data... I was one of those wanting to share this for myself, but somehow it never got off the ground...

interaction with other learners[edit]

Another aspect is: how was the interaction with other learners? By facilitating the courses or projects or my blog I got into contact of course. My blog somehow never invited people to comment much (I think <7 editors, considering that anyone can edit: strange, or the content is not interesting enough) - it got attraction in 2008 because I used it in the course: Composing free and open online educational resources. The PLE itself - besides User:Cormaggio and this - I think did not gather much response (to inspire others? that is another goal, since PLE is personal?) By being a custodian I got into contact way more with people (also in terms of learning what they learn currently)...
I think the federation aspect below (for wikis) would have a huge effect...

used technology[edit]

It's this wiki + more (see above: chat, email, external pages). Besides this people set up an additional server with various services (jabber, Moodle, mailing list, ssh access, Quicktime streaming) but due to operating costs it was shut down... though also it felt like because it was not operated by WMF people did not like it?
There was some time ago another try to set up one (this time funded by WMF Germany). but I think it has also come to a halt (see here).
So, why additional server? some say the existing MediaWiki environment is not sufficient (see also: Wikiversity:Technical needs, Wikiversity:Vision/2009 + Wikiversity:Vision/2010), though I guess everyone has to decide for themselves. I've come to like Mediawiki + IRC (summary over 5 years) - because of its simplicity. And tbh renting a server does not cost much these days...

not finished yet, I think when I revamp Wikiversity:Personal learning environment a little I talk about more aspects...

2011 October 21 - federation (in form of e.g. micro blogging, federated wiki, ...)[edit]

earthquake ? no, that won't tear us apart...

federation is a nice thing:

  • one advantage it makes sure you control your own data and not a company
    • I created an account at Identi.ca in Feb. 2010
    • though I didn't put much thought into the concept of federation, I just used identi.ca as a service (e.g. because twitter did not allow me to choose a free licence + because of its good display of conversations)
    • I got into concept with federation in 2011
    • more on this here + here: aspects of federation

I didn't try the concept of federated wiki by Ward Cunningham since I find that system has higher requirements than Mediawiki (Ruby instead of php)

  • but I think it would be a sensational thing when using this in conjunction with Mediawiki
  • perhaps discussions about deletions, revert waring become less? and people focus more on the learning part? (or as some see: creating learning resources)

see also: w: Federation (information technology)


edit 2012-01-17: the express version is less restrictive, looks fine: What is a federated wiki?
edit 2012-05-28: section "Serving Static Files with PHP" in: Hosting and Installation Guide


2011 October 20 - what can be added to "teach" probationary custodians[edit]

no idea if this teaching has any value... but hell, it is fun

the energy you put to teach custodians after their probationary period is probably higher than before when not having/using:

blog[edit]

  • a blog (to show what was learned? not only that, should be more)
    • a blog is in my view the easiest way to make your mindset available to others (see also this)
  • it can help the mentor to find an easy entry point for discussion which seems important for the mentee
perhaps a story to illustrate:
  • two strangers (a female + male) meet in the woods
  • as it is with strangers trust is not yet established
  • the female must go to toilet, but also wants to make sure the guy does not peek
  • so, she asks him to sing something
  • with this she can hear if he approaches or not + can relaxed do her thing
  • hearing the voice brings security for her, same is e.g. when you are here
  • if others can hear what you think (e.g. read your opinions) they get to feel safer (there's no true guarantee though, but WV's trust contingent is large)
  • (btw: do not analyze me for this example)
  • it can help future probationary custodians as well as mentors to see how others approached this
  • helps oneself recapture learning thoughts from previous times + see how one has matured (or not ;-))

other approaches: language, reviewing, summarizing[edit]

  • there are more things one can do additionally (which help you understand WV + its environment better)
    • formulate templates positive and/or
      • some examples [7] or [8]
      • wikis are unfortunately only written text + we can not cover all if-then-scenarios (also in real life) so at least we should make things positive
      • e.g. there was an example in The Tipping Point where they discussed how small actions in a neighbourhood done by many can have a lasting effect in perceiving the neighbourhood as safe or welcome-friendly
      • my experience so far is: that your thinking shows in actions + I've used for some time translations to help me rethink things (see e.g. Translate to think more (TTM)). I think (though your situation may be different), thinking about how to formulate things different will change your thoughts
    • review other/previous custodians' edits and/or
      • can be something like: one prob. custodians takes edits 1-x, reviews + makes notes somewhere (see blog above), next prob. custodian continues from x+1 to y, ...
      • this also ensures that people grasp a little history of WV
    • summarize (past) CRs
      • summary creation of discussions, ...
      • this is a valuable task since it ensures that others save time (though one has an initial cost, but I think such activities will ensure you get more credit in others eyes - if that's what you want)

One can not review all prob. custodian actions (also after probation period is over), also many things could be done in various forms + can be seen as controversial, but I think if the mentor + the community agree that the mindset (to handle things) + to learn from past "errors" is there: it will help you to help the community (some say: to come into possession of the custodian tools) so, some steps like 1-3 could help that the custodian understands earlier (from chat ca. 1 week ago, short points)

see also: How to be a Wikimedia sysop
based on below comments this was reedited (see e.g. 2011-10-22, 14:36, 14:59)

comments[edit]

On the grounds that we are invited to comment - it seems like you are discussing a knowledge management system. I'm curious, though, if the problem is less a lack of understanding of institutional processes than institutional culture, or perhaps the possibility that there isn't a consistent institutional culture in which the new Custodian can embrace. Otherwise, the suggestions work for me. :) - Bilby 12:53, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, but a tad more - the difficulty with KM systems is how hard it can be to capture knowledge. Using TAM, one supposes that the system either has to be very simple, or very useful, and I think only the latter is really possible. - Bilby 12:56, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
I think it depends on the Custodian. Some may be familiar with the culture and not the processes. Some may be familiar with the processes and not the culture. Some may be unfamiliar with both. Some may be familiar with both -- darklama  13:02, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
My focus is normally a tad more on process than culture, but it seems to me that the loss of one requires the knowledge of the other to counter it. If there is no defined culture, then you need defined processes. If there are no defined processes, knowledge of institutional culture may assist. But I'm not sure that either is well defined in this case (although you may see things with better eyes than mine). :) - Bilby 13:17, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
I think both are likely important. The context, meaning, and purpose of processes may be lost on people without an understanding of culture. Arguments and disputes may erupt between people with a shared culture, and no understanding of processes that allow solutions to be found. -- darklama  14:55, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

I think it's the "institutional culture" which splits people here most. I can't tell about current, documented processess since I was MIA.

If it's consistent or not could be perhaps said like this: I think we are all here because of the term learning but our definition of learning naturally is different due to our experiences (I must look up some old edits where I summarize this better). There were always some parties at WV which favoured freedom approaches and the ones which favoured more conservative approaches. The problem with liberty is that one needs to be careful to not hurt others (some people intentionally wanted to hurt (because as I understand him/them that's also a form to teach someone :-( )). This is unfortunately which turned differences into major clashes here at WV a few times.

I am for protecting institutions using WV for their learning activities. And as far as I know institutions + their learners were always in a safe haven here (that's good because it brings WV a good reputation). I am also for supporting individual learning (see e.g. Wikiversity:Personal learning environment)...

Ok, enough of that for now since I did not answer your question so much...

When I look back how I got the custodian tools: I had a mentor who was one of the WV founders + there were at least >5 active custodians (one of them also a founder) + >20 active editors I interacted with. In the WV:Chat one could always find a partner to talk about some things or recent situations at WV (which also could help to cool things down first). I did learn many things (I originally came from de.WV administration and (we) Germans tend to be more rigid in things)... It was a fun time where I also was willingly giving much time for WV (or let's say supporting people I shared ideals with) ...

My above suggestions came up in a chat where also one topic was: how could Wikiversity be rebooted? We talked about how the other efforts to start a learning environment faired. It came up, some things which did not work out yet at WV which have a great potential in my view (e.g. showing thoughts on learning, Wikiversity:Review board) It was not about a specific custodian, more of a general nature, I'm not sure how it was perceived though, considering the last RFC + that that probationary custodian left in such dramatic way. But it's hard to grasp someone's mindset... I think currently getting the tools is not so hard, since the current bureaucrats understand the WV way. The only problem may be, as SBJ truly said, to find the time to let the prob. custodian inhale the WV way. In my time probationary custodians got feedback/views from many sides which now is missing :-( ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat + Identi.ca 13:53, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't want to waste all of your time with my thoughts, but one brief one before I sleep. :) I found the "reboot" page interesting, as it never seemed to state what the problem was that warranted a reboot. I'm not sure if that was known, but not said, or not well enough defined to be stated.
Watching what happened to Simone, it felt like the en.WP RfA process, only with an undercurrent of a second (completely different) model (mostly expressed between you and SB_Johnny). Interestingly, on en.WP almost everyone interested can tell you what is wrong with the RfA process (with considerable consistency), but it seems clear that there is no chance of working out a solution. Here, perhaps, there is a good chance of working out a solution, but I'm not sure that everyone can define what needs solving. Alternatively, maybe you know, and I'm just missing that bit. :) - Bilby 15:06, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Rebooting WV: let me see how I can add those historical moments/problems there (see here)
undercurrent things in RFC:
yes, the Four-sides model, let me see what we can find out with SBJ, ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat + Identi.ca 17:25, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
That's a fascinating link - thanks! My field is more to do with systems theory, and in particular Soft Systems, (although more Churchman than Checkland) so the model was new to me. However, it draws nice parallels with what I was thinking of. I used to do work with Linstone's TOP (Technical, Organisational, Personal) model in Multiple Perspectives theory, and I think I have a couple of papers out on the subject. (Wikipedia doesn't have anything on it, but Allison's w:Essence of Decision is a major source of much of the methodology). I don't normally worry about TOP these days, as I've moved in different academic directions for various reasons, but that RfC discussion, and the four-sides model, made me think of it. My impression was that you and SB_Johnny were arguing primarily from an O perspective, Darklama and Thenub314 from a T perspective (although there's little to go on, and Darklama in particular could be using O), and Abd, John Bessa and Marshallsumter were definitely from P. I contrast this with en.WP's RfA process, where almost all of the RfA comments are T or P - O almost never appears there, being mostly confined to the talk page, and even there I find more focus on T and P.
I don't mean this as a critique, just as an observation, but I wonder if the idea of multiple perspectives theory might be more broadly relevant to your interests. - Bilby 06:41, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the links, sounds good
I've tried to reconstruct here some more thoughts, ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat + Identi.ca 13:53, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Fascinating, folks. I've experience with and have developed certain organizational theories and proposals, coming from outside academia, though I'm connected with academics. Bilby, can you point me to a good coverage of Linstone's model. Definitely there are different organizational perspectives involved here, that's part of our problem. I'm aware of the limitations of various models, and do think that there is value in studying wiki history in terms of structural models. I do not believe that wiki phenomena are due to "bad actors," but rather are a result of structural conditions that encourage certain behaviors and discourage others. --Abd 00:43, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
Linstone had a couple of books out on the topic - I think Multiple Perspectives for Decision Making was ok, but I preferred The Unbounded Mind. There are quite a few papers by different people, myself included, but the quality jumps around a lot. Linstone has a paper at [9] which does an ok job of explaining it through application. Hall and Davis have an ok extension, that is surprisingly like where Linstone was planning to take things [10].
As mentioned, I've moved on from it, but these models tend to have explanatory power (per Checkland), and there is a lot to be said for understanding different perspectives. - Bilby 03:15, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2011 January

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2011 January 20 - make other ways more visible (seeing is believing?)[edit]

  • Thought to myself: (create) easy ways for others to recognize how to participate than to call for d.l.t.on?


edit 2013-09-27 while talking with my bot I perceived it was important to link to: Learning resource

2011 January 19 - WikipediaOS[edit]

  • had the urge to comment at WikipediaOS + started also some little research project on OS: [11] (still small, will extend in a few months to more ;-))

2011 January 14[edit]




observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2010 April

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2010 April 5 - yeah, the topic about deletions[edit]

[14]:
since there is again the cry for delete buttons, a copy paste of a comment by me from chat (with John's permission):

[18:27:44] <ErkanYilmaz> haha
[18:27:48] <ErkanYilmaz> JWSchmidt: " the "edit" button was an amazing invention"
[18:27:54] <ErkanYilmaz> people tend to forget that
[18:28:27] <JWSchmidt> who needs to edit when your finger is on the "delete" and "block" buttons?
[18:29:05] <ErkanYilmaz> yeah, better to destroy so it never grows again + perhaps we lost some valuable contributor
[18:29:13] <ErkanYilmaz> (ironic)
[18:30:35] <ErkanYilmaz> actually I gave my mom a lecture these days
[18:30:46] <ErkanYilmaz> she just plucks out the plants and so to plant new ones
[18:30:53] <ErkanYilmaz> and I ask her, why she destroys life so easily?
[18:31:16] <ErkanYilmaz> it needed effort to let them grow and someone decides: ok, that is it for you now
[18:31:31] <ErkanYilmaz> you have to leave earth, here is your 1-way ticket
[18:32:39] ErkanYilmaz thinks he is too much influenced by buddhism/taoism these days

2010 April 5 - I'd really like to make a movie, one day[edit]

about meta:Petition to Shut Down Wikiversity or participation motivation for Wikiversity the Movie: the understanding of WV core ideas seems suboptimal (transmission somewhere between: sender, receiver, the way; solar flares, ...). Who knows, putting Wikimedia users from all projects + with different views together in one room + discussing WV's mission + also making a video of this. One day...


observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2010 March

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2010 March 29 - more people from WV do external (micro) blogging[edit]

Did you notice it? see what is available at WV atm: Category:Blogging. So, the xternal blogging: increasing awareness - about? better tools? in the end just content counts or content with some nice technical features?

2010 March 21 - WV is for what?[edit]

  • some thoughts I had while reading the comments/questions at Jtneill's page.
    • "8. "Is it your intention as a bureaucrat to make policy violators custodians?" - Well, its not my intention. I hope you and others would continue to help limit the possibility. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 00:34, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
      • Though I know that probably not all would agree: What would be so bad, about making these users or others probationary custodians? Some (e.g. me) see WV also as a place where people can develop. Is it too naive to think that WV(-people, learning resources, ...) could help people change? And also the other way: others have influence on people here? Panta rhei.
      • I agree that it costs effort to make someone change. So, if someone would declare to watch a troublemaker being probationary custodian and clean up + talk with the user through issues. Would that help? What if others are harmed in a way during that? not good
      • have to dream more about this :-)
      • does it help to think always about:
        • how will this user be in 7 years?
        • why is there an edit button?

2010 March 20 - I guess I am back, somehow[edit]

observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2008 August

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August 24 - Wikiversity the Movie[edit]

Trying to revive Wikiversity the Movie.
What is the story behind this ? It began with being unhappy because there is always first the cry for the delete button. Made one edit here. Still felt unhappy. Found now a better way to let things flow out by joining Wikiversity the Movie: [16].

August 6 - switched priorities[edit]

I was going to continue with the course on copyright Kurs:Urheberrecht, but I find it atm more fascinating to participate at: Social psychology (psychology). observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2008 June

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June 17 - words and their magic[edit]

Byodoin calligrapher close.jpg

It is funny (was my first thought) then it became the feeling "interesting": to see, how a possibility - which is open since long - is not used until a new name is born for this - and suddenly: all people wanna join the road trip. Change can be dependent on so many things or sometimes: just a few easy things.

Agreed Change needs catalysts, I think joining wikiversity is letting your self become that catalystThuvack 05:36, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

June 16 - why is the German Wikiversity research page going to be updated ?[edit]

Wikimedia-research.png

So, how did I spend the last 2h ? Setting up a first version of the new Wikiversity-Research page Wikiversity:Forschung (the current page is still from 2006 and has not all info implemented) on de.WV. And now people have to be informed so they can implement their ideas/views. This was the reason for all of this. Sometimes you just have to read and that what you wanted to do for some time will happen finally.

June 8 - something Wikiversity related at Wikimedia Foundation's board election[edit]

Candidate' plans for Wikiversity are to be found here: meta:Board elections/2008/Candidates/Questions/3#Wikiversity. There are still about 2 weeks for the election. Here you can see the votes so far. I will vote on the last day, when I have all info available.

Voting is still possible until 23:59 21 June 2008 (UTC):
Wikimedia Foundation's Board elections 2008 statistics from Wikiversity (data until 16th June 2008)
select your home wiki (see the requirements):
Special:Boardvote
fr:Special:Boardvote
de:Special:Boardvote
betawikiversity:Special:Boardvote
it:Special:Boardvote
el:Special:Boardvote
es:Special:Boardvote
Voting has finished, so how was the participation ?
(please keep in mind: these are not the only Wikiversity contributors who voted – some used also their user accounts in the other Wikimedia projects)
Wikimedia Foundation's Board elections 2008 statistics from Wikiversity.jpg
Here is the data from Wikibooks, when just looking at the values, "seems" Wikibooks participants were not so motivated to go to election[1]:
Wikiversity Wikibooks
Accounts eligible to vote 48 114
Filtered by email address
(each valid address counted once)
31 92
User accounts which voted [2] 12 16
voters per filtered email 38,7% 17,4%
Wikimedia Foundation's Board elections 2008 statistics from Wikibooks.jpg
  1. (keep in mind: these are not the only Wikibooks/Wikiversity contributors who voted – some used also their user accounts in the other Wikimedia projects)
  2. (keep in mind: these are not the only Wikibooks/Wikiversity contributors who voted – some used also their user accounts in the other Wikimedia projects)

June 2 - When did you read ALOUD the last time ?[edit]

Wilhelm Resetarits Stubnblues MQ2007a.jpg

was written back in August 2007 - I am talking here about an additional book for Thucydides: The Peloponnesian War

I am reading a foreign language book - aloud.
I remember the last time reading aloud - over a longer period of time - was in school, when we read set books in class.

Why am I doing this now (again) ?
Perhaps to get more of my senses activated ? Could also be because of the topic of the book - it is about ancient times. And as you know: stories sound better, when they are told.

I noticed that this slows me down (when comparing to “normal” silent reading). Could be because:
- now I read REALLY the complete text instead having read some parts (quickly)
- sometimes also the pronounciation/accentuation seems not correct to me and I stop and think how it would be correct
- perhaps I see more with my mind’s eye ?

The book has >500 pages - I wish all my neighbors fun listening :-) observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2008 May

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May 31 - improvement possibilities for German Wikiversity - by an "outsider"[edit]

Had a phone call with a friend - we talked also about German Wikiversity (WV) and this is a very short resume after it:

  • we talked about mission of WV and he knows it now :-)
  • some improvement potentials from his side about the topics of his study and PhD (no comment by me, just stating):
    • more categorizing - after structures from real life, something like that people can see easily: this resource is for 4th class schools, this is for 1st semesters from university
    • materials are like scripts - this he can have also at university - he misses explanations/descriptions at begin - that is why he searched at 1st place

background info:

  • a few months ago he just knew Wikipedia, he uses Wikipedia regularly, but doesn't contribute
  • initial assumption after that by him: Wikiversity = Wikipedia

May 24 - What can motivate to give away "their" stuff to all - more willingly ?[edit]

move audio files to commons

During the OER course I uploaded some audio files to commons. But honestly: since it took much time to upload and add a category, description - my motivation sank to do this soon. But 2 days ago I rediscovered the CheckUsage button on commons and saw that one of the audio files was used at Chinese Wikipedia. That blew my mind. I didn't expect that.

Well that gave me a boost to upload now all 123 audio files (in German, Turkish and French). Let's see in the future where they will be used.

I think if we could see (more) easily where a (learning) resource is used, that could help that people more willingly give away "their" stuff to all.

May 19 - OER last week: Comments, reflection, peer evaluation and feedback[edit]

So, the course Composing free and open online educational resources has finished (as the time schedule says). But I am sure the next cycle of the course will happen. And hopefully some of the participants will contribute here also in the future.

questions and answers[edit]

Someone send me these questions, so I will answer them here openly.

What is the most important thing you've gained through participation in the Wikiversity course?[edit]

  • That I was "forced" to see Wikiversity from another point of view/role as usual. This could benefit future learning projects here at Wikiversity.
  • (Even though the question asks for one thing: We got a new custodian: User:Jtneill - though I am not quite sure, if this was the only influencing factor (for him))

Were you involved with Wikiversity before taking this course?[edit]

  • Yes :-) Wanna stalk (only English Wikiversity) ?

Did you or will you complete this course? What factors have influenced your completion status in this course?[edit]

  • Completed
  • Factors:
    • being familiar with the topic/Wikiversity
    • I am regularly at Wikiversity - so also seeing how other participants contributed here gave a motivation.

Will you continue to take an interest in Wikiversity after this course? Explain.[edit]

  • Yes. Reason: I like it here.

Does this course fit in with other courses you are taking? Or are you doing it out of professional, personal or other interests?[edit]

  • It is a different course than I usually do/did (see also point 1). Reason I invested some time is: that the course is also of interest for Wikiversity.

Feel free to comment about any other aspects of your experience in this course[edit]

  • See other contributions during the course time (but don't judge too hard :-) I must still look at them also for the final review of the course.)
  • or just ask - time is money :-)

observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2008 April

You are invited to add your comments (e.g. but my perception of this issue is different) - please sign anything you add (howto Wikiversity:Signature).



2008 April 29 - Week 9 (and 10): Comments, reflection, peer evaluation and feedback[edit]

todo[edit]

Talk-icon.svg
  • read blog + assignment
  • visit each other blogs and comment the posts in there:
  • done also at least at begin of class
  • todo: visit some more
todo: read again my posts from the past weeks to find some more input for above


thoughts[edit]

2008 April 28 - How important is a page ? (previously titled: what is a page ?)[edit]

Fictional page.svg

At the moment I am thinking mostly that it is...

... just a page, it is mostly static, not live. If you have the opportunity: go for the live thing. Same goes here: after writing/reviewing, this forms already other ideas which are not even included in it. So, and now try to stop the new ideas from being developed :-)

"...let's say carelessly this is WV (though it consists of many individuals - note: I don't say pages)..." Talk:Vandal Fighting, ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 21:36, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

2008 April 22 - Sharing Video(s) (OER - week 8)[edit]

todo[edit]

read assignment + blog

thoughts - in progress[edit]

  • I have finally created an intro tutorial for German Wikiversity:
video: short intro about German Wikiversity
(4:52 mins, resolution: 1136x752, size: 16.6 MB)


Before I encountered following probs:
I have created a 475 MB avi which goes about 5 mins. Since commons allows only a specific video format (see commons:Help:Converting video) I had to find a converter. And here the problem begins: either the tools:
brought during conversion an error or created color problems:
video with color problems


So, I uploaded the latter one and will try to solve this color problem. If this doesn't help I will convert it a reduced avi and upload it on a non-Wikimedia-project as listed in the assignment (which I don't prefer actually).
  • In September 2007 I created videos for the Wikiversity screen saver - see commons:Category:Wikiversity videos
  • In Nov. 2006 I created a "video"-tutorial (with not so good sound quality) for a Wikiversity course with the tool Wink (tutorial software). Since it is interactive swf it is bad to convert in a format which commons accepts easily (again the prob that only a certain video format is accepted by commons), so I just quote in next chapter.
  • I wonder why I didn't use/create since then more videos (though they are a good medium to transmit info) ?
  • time resources: perhaps too much effort to create them ?
  • the restrictions by commons ?
  • less interested persons in it ?
  • ...


video tutorial[edit]

about: graphic display of algorithms in source code
video tutorial: in German, still under review (requires: Shockwave-Player).

SNIP

In the following tutorial you will see, how the appropriate graph to a source code looks like.
In detail: With the tool jGRASP there is created for the Java source code MergeSort.java from the Wikiversity course algorithms and data structures (Algorithmen und Datenstrukturen) the CSD (Control Structure Diagram).
Reason of this tutorial: To show you, how fast such a graph can be created. It should show you that there is nothing complicated behind this - with a tool this is done automatically and easy.
Here you can see the Shockwave-Tutorial <- German version (I will create an English version soon) and still under review (condition: Shockwave-Player).

SNIP

2008 April 19 - Sharing Audio (OER - week 7)[edit]

Places of articulation

todo[edit]

read assignment + blog

thoughts - in progress[edit]

  • Adding the picture on the right: while listening to music now (which changes my mood): I think before sharing audio one needs to have the ability to do so - there are many people who can not speak.
  • Instead of uploading one podcast, I have done following: I have converted one of my pages to wiki syntax, see User:Erkan Yilmaz/translations with sound files and the available 123 sound files will be uploaded to commons so more wikis can use them
  • Well, what was a little hindering is: I have to convert the mp3s first to ogg to upload on commons :-( After finding 2 nice freeware tools, also this was solved quick. Now I just have to upload the files to commons and edit the page here with the file names.


2008 April 7 - Taking and Sharing Pictures (OER - week 6)[edit]

todo[edit]

read assignment + blog

thoughts - in progress[edit]

move pictures to commons
  • While reading the assignment I checked how much pictures I have uploaded so far on commons - it is 107 (either self created or from other wikimedia projects brought to commons). Click here to see how often a bot told me to fix something. Here you can also see some pictures still being at Wikiversity. I must use one time the Move-to-commons assistant to move them to commons.


  • Well I don't have a digital cam, so let's see how this will be.
  • >Maybe you can improve the photo
Well I remember having done an improvement in the past for this photo: commons:Image:Alliances in the Pelopennesian War, 431 B.C. 1.JPG. More info here.
  • Besides this I have lately started to use some more pictures in the posts here to relax more the text
  • Recently here at Wikiversity was a group of more than 100 students taking part in the Design for the Environment. Since new users can only upload pictures here at Wikiversity after 4 days of account registration there was done this edit to help them upload faster pictures to commons.
  • Well I know Flickr too - but somehow I prefer all my pictures to be on one place - which is commons. In case you don't know, commons has also imported pictures from Flickr, see commons:Category:Flickr
  • I dare you to read an old post of mine here regarding commons. :-)
  • on 9th April I was possessed by the "devil" and tagged some pictures regarding licence and informed the uploaders - how dare I ?

feedback[edit]

Hi Erkan - may I ask you a bold question? Why isn't there an obligation to tag images with a whatsoever copyright flag when you upload it? Is that on purpose or because it just doesn't work this way in wikis? --- Barbara Braun

Of course and btw: that is an interesting question.
Well, there are some wikis which oblige for a tag - otherwise you can not upload. One problem with that is, that if the user doesn't know or doesn't read the licence background info, the user would just select one (which might be not appropriate). But that problem of selecting a wrong licence consists also here at Wikiversity - but at least with the possibility to select no licence we can ask the user again to reselect and provide more help.
I am not sure exactly why it is like it is - but most wikis I am in are like this - I guess it is a standard option by the Wikimedia foundation ? I can ask someone later in the evening.
There was some recent discussion also if users should upload only at commons, see Wikiversity talk:Licensing policy (because since it is software we could disable the upload (partly) here ) ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 06:33, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

2008 April 4 - German Wikibooks + Wikiversity: creating together a flyer[edit]

That is a signal to all others: German Wikibooks and Wikiversity love each other and are creating together a flyer. Wanna look ? de.Wikibooks

2008 April 1 - OER: Wikipedia and Wikimedia - week 5[edit]

todo[edit]

still in progress[edit]

  • try to find (perhaps) answers to these questions:
  • What do you think about the Wikimedia projects?
sunrise
Great idea. I am part of it - you can also be - why don't you try it ?
You need most of the times just a sparkling idea.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry:
If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders.
Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea.


  • What do you think will be the future of the Wikimedia projects?
They will certainly extend and produce many new projects, as long as people don't forget that it is about the P (P stands for people and not - pages or process - see examples below)
  • How do you see the future of OERs when you think about the Wikimedia projects?
Let's hope they will grow the same way. Though they certainly will introduce some tools to check for quality, see e.g. Wikipedia:Flagged revisions. I hope we can influence people's minds to reserve some of their time to this idea.

thoughts[edit]

1. So, the article is from about 2 years ago. People should keep in mind that some things might have been changed/old
2. a story about addiction and the word "their":
I brainwashed finally a friend of mine who uses de.Wikipedia just for consuming. So that he also contributes to it. He made an edit at de.WP about topic xyz (he studied that) - as IP. And another seasoned editor removed it. So what happened next ?
A few days later the friend told me: "Hey, my edit got reverted. But I don't understand why. It was correct." Thank God there is a version history in Wikimedia projects and I could find his edit. The summary comment was not satisfying for my friend. I told him then that he can write on the talk page and to the editor in what aspect the information which was reverted was correct.
Guess what ? My friend still did not do it. Think about why this is.
Some editors forget that you need for the goal to succeed the P (and P stands for people and not pages).
3. About deletion of pages:
people forget or don't know that every edit can be restored again form the database. And if you want this edit/page can be brought to Wikiversity, see Wikiversity:Wikimedia Garbage Detail
4. admins / custodians / sysops / janitors / gardeners / ...
Is being admin a "big deal" or "not a big deal" ?
What does the admin and the non-admin think about that (over time) ?
btw: WV uses the term custodian and is more relaxed than some other projects, see Wikiversity:Custodianship#How does one become a custodian? about WV's approach. Here also counts: it is about the P (and P stands for people and not process).
5. My answer to "What's the best way for a researcher to get started?"
Just do it, EXPLORE ! You will learn easily the wiki syntax and be bold !
6. 'anyone can edit' model:
Great thing, keep it simple please. A bad edit can be reverted later on, but to get someone to share her knowledge is not so easy as it seems

observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2008 March

You are invited to add your comments (e.g. but my perception of this issue is different) - please sign anything you add (howto Wikiversity:Signature).



2008 March 30 - OER week 4: Copyright and Alternatives[edit]

todo[edit]

thoughts[edit]


  • copyright consists of two words: copy and right. Right alone can mean that someone or some people have a right (e.g. to copy) and others not. Someone is making here a distinction between haves and have-nots, insiders and outsiders to a certain group. How to get this right ? How long you have that right ? Is that right binding to anyone ? Copying can be done by more people - also by people who have not a certain right. How are the goals of the copying people and the right-owners identical or not ? Can these groups merged to one (some day) or does the struggle continue (see below in 557 A.D where 3,000 men were killed) ? What kind of change does this require in people's heads ? Who can help to bring this change of mind ?
  • "Try to ellaborate why the copyright is as it is and why Lessig is claiming that we need "Free Culture". Try to also contextualize these ideas in your own work and country."
Lessig (btw: great presentation) seems to point that the "individual" (we) have done nothing to prevent that "others" control the creativity/freedom. Perhaps because lawmakers, lawyers,... are too strong and/or indviduals are not interested, lazy, not organized, ... ?
So, what have I done recently to enable freedom/creativity ? Examples:
  • All my contributions are e.g. at
  • en.WV under GFDL and
  • de.WV under CC-BY-SA 2.5
but I quote myself:
"my edits here are under GNU FDL - but hey, just ask me and you can use it under another licence - what's the big deal ?" (source)
"Anything, as long as it helps you achieve your learning (goals) and if also others can participate in the learning process: even better (so, that comment probably will cause now a lot of heat :-) ) One good thing about Wikiversity from my point of view (POV) is the freedom it offers in comparison to other Wikimedia projects. So, just be bold !"
Probably that is not all listed, but if any of us does a little something, it will work. We are more people than a few people at critical, powerful positions (I hope that does not sound aggressive ?). Just be creative and find a way through the bottleneck.
2ndAvenueSubwayStationBottleneck.jpg


  • Probably some of you know "The Cape Town Open Education Declaration" (see here)
Figures from Germany are:
31st March 2008: 108 signatures are from Germany (from a total of 1512 signatures by individuals) - that makes about 7% of all signatures
on 3rd Feb. 2008 it was 89 signatures from Germany, which was about 6.8% of all total individual signatures (see here)
Did you sign it already ?
TODO: check how the figures are for other countries
  • Unfortunately many people (especially newcomers in wikimedia projects) don't know (or care) much about copyright. It seems easier for them this way, but causes more effort/trouble later on to correct. How does this bring the Wikimedia foundation into legal trouble ?
some pages which might help then:
  • ...
other participants[edit]
  • Let's ask the participants what kind of licence they release their stuff on their blogs (see also: here)
I started writing to some blogs, but since this may be interpreted as spam and I also have not the time, I posted this at the course blog here - hope some people read it.

still brainstorming[edit]

History of copyright law[edit]

557 A.D.:

"One of the earliest copyright disputes reputedly took place in 557 A.D. between Abbot Finnian of Moville and St. Columba over St. Columba's copying of a Psalter belonging to an Abbot. The dispute over ownership of the copy led to the Battle of Cúl Dreimhne (also know as Battle of Cooldrumman), in which 3,000 men were killed."[1]

14th + 15 century developments:

  • increase of mercantile trade
  • secular universities appear
  • movable type by Gutenberg

Copyright origins in Britain:

"This statute first accorded exclusive rights to authors (ie, creators) rather than publishers, and it included protections for consumers of printed work ensuring that publishers could not control their use after sale. It also limited the duration of such exclusive rights to 28 years, after which all works would pass into the public domain."[2]

international:

  • 1887:
  • "Internationally, the Berne Convention in 1887 set out the scope of copyright protection, and is still in force to this day."[3]
  • "As soon as the work is "fixed", that is, written or recorded on some physical medium (e.g. words written on page, music recorded onto tape, etc.), its author is automatically granted exclusive rights to the distribution of the work and any derivative works unless and until the author explicitly disclaims them, or until the copyright expires."[4]


  1. Gantz, John and Rochester, Jack B. (2005), Pirates of the Digital Millennium, Upper Saddle River: Financial Times Prentice Hall, p. 30-33; ISBN 0-13-146315-2
  2. History of copyright law. (2008, March 31). In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved 11:30, March 31, 2008, from http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_copyright_law&oldid=202271568
  3. History of copyright law. (2008, March 22). In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved 11:03, March 31, 2008, from http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_copyright_law&oldid=200041378
  4. History of copyright law. (2008, March 31). In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved 11:44, March 31, 2008, from http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_copyright_law&oldid=202271568

2008 March 29 - German Wikiversity has its 1000th article[edit]

Learning content in de.WV is separated into courses ("Kurs") and projects:

  • Kurs: 831 pages
  • Projekt: 641 pages
  • Kurs Diskussion: 156 pages
  • Projekt Diskussion: 119 pages

Since we have now a number 1000 let's celebrate this:

The German Wikiversity has now its 1000th article.Thanks to all who helped achieving this.
Wikimedia project UTC time of data collection users total
pages[1]
articles files custodians total edits[2] software version
Wikiversity (Greek) 2008-Μαρ-29, 22:48 (UTC) 84 860 97 31 3 5.207 1.13alpha (r32485)
Wikiversity (Spanish) 2008-mar-29, 22:46 (UTC) 3.228 2.853 571 6 9 21.151 1.13alpha (r32485)
Wikiversity (beta) 2008-Mar-29, 22:50 (UTC) 896 4,126 1,355 126 7 22,209 1.13alpha (r32485)
Wikiversity (Italian) 2008-mar-29, 22:44 (UTC) 789 4.863 542 57 8 28.745 1.13alpha (r32485)
Wikiversity (German) 2008-Mär.-29, 21:26 (UTC) 2.281 8.951 1.000 565 9 89.134 1.13alpha (r32485)
Wikiversity (French) 2008-mar-29, 22:41 (UTC) 1 893 12 208 3 752 44 10 118 573 1.13alpha (r32485)
Wikiversity (English) 2008-Mar-29, 21:38 (UTC) 18.985 50.304 6.880 4.130 23 233.631 1.13alpha (r32485)
Wikibooks (German) 2008-Mär.-29, 21:35 (UTC) 8.674 37.293 10.859 6.162 16 373.411 1.13alpha (r32485)
Wikibooks (English) 2008-Mar-29, 23:09 (UTC) 85,710 95,858 28,695 8,679 32 1,174,227 1.13alpha (r32485)
Wikipedia (German) 2008-Mär.-29, 21:33 (UTC) 537.665 2.062.694 730.132 135.345 303 46.023.640 1.13alpha (r32485)
Wikipedia (English) 2008-Mar-29, 21:40 (UTC) 6.771.419 12.585.439 2.309.692 774.412 1.530 212.275,946 1.13alpha (r32485)

That is all numbers and doesn't have to mean anything - also in comparison to other figures. But it is a small start. Help us grow !


  1. This includes also "talk" pages, pages about Wikiversity, minimal "stub" pages, redirects, and others that probably don't qualify as content pages.
  2. since WV was set up

2008 March 27 - Usurpation is against assume good faith ?[edit]

background info with SUL:

  • 0-edit-contributors: why take from them back the faith we put in them ? Did they do something that provoked this ?
  • will the new owners of that account contribute here more ? if so, why didn't they so far contribute or noticed that the account was gone ?
  • more to come, during that, feel free to think loud here
edit 2008-03-30: see Wikiversity talk:Changing username#Usurpation is against assume good faith ?

2008 March 27 - a journey into the past[edit]

If you wanna go back ca. 2400 years back in time this Saturday, 29.3. click here.

2008 March 24 - importing pages from other projects: Wikiversity:Wikimedia Garbage Detail[edit]

Vuilnis bij Essent Milieu.jpg

Today someone else than me suggested to import pages into de.WV :-) see de:Projekt:Fundstücke aus anderen Wikimedia-Projekten

2008 March 23 - Wikimedia Foundation & Google Summer of Code™[edit]

Wikimedia Foundation RGB logo with text.svg

Wikimedia Foundation is taking part in the Google Summer of Code™ as a mentoring organization.Student application period is from 24.-31. March. Join and please also tell others ! See the list of project ideas which surely will help the wikimedia projects.


2008-04-02: extended until 7th of April

2008 March 17 - OER week 3: philosophical background of the OER movement[edit]

Todo[edit]

  • read Green tick.svg
  • assignment for this week: read mostly articles on WP, discuss them, e.g. show similarities and differences
  • I think I will start with the German WP articles first and read then the English ones - I guess with this I can help also WP: optimize both articles, ...

thoughts[edit]

  • How many of the participants edited a Wikipedia article while reading or wrote a comment on the talk page there ?
  • I wonder how many course participants signed The Cape Town Open Education Declaration ?
  • It is tiring to read all always the same topics on all the blogs - I pity the facilitators :-( So I made a fun section
Perhaps it could be better to "force" people to do something collaboratively (e.g. reviewing + optimizing a Wikipedia article together) ?

still brainstorming[edit]

Age of Enlightenment[edit]

Sanzio 01 cropped.png

What is it that brings enlightenment/changes ?
(age of) people ? "correct" mindset ? emotions ? (new) technologies ? disasters ? luck ? other factors ? All together ?

  • Doubt everything at least one time, even if it is the sentence: 2 x 2 = 4 („Zweifle an allem wenigstens einmal, und wäre es auch der Satz zwei mal zwei ist vier“)[1] (Lichtenberg)
  • "Knowledge is power." (by Francis Bacon)
  • tolerance (e.g. against religions); human is naturally good, you just have to show him, that he realizes it
-> Wikiversity:Assume Good Faith, Wikiversity:Please do not bite the newcomers
  • Categorical imperative: often forgotten
  • w:de:Lesegesellschaft -> see also Wikiversity:reading groups
  • new method of book printing (Gutenberg) -> Mediawiki software (initial release: January 2002)
  • Enlightenment was primarily done by the wealthy, especially by the economically successful bourgeoisie. ("Die Aufklärung war vor allem Sache der Wohlhabenden, namentlich des ökonomisch erfolgreichen Bürgertums."[2])


  • timeline of some important persons during the Age of Enlightenment (in general I like the French article better, because it gets relaxed with pictures, where you can catch the atmosphere from back then)
  • famous persons from the Age of Enlightenment: de.WP, en.WP

Standing on the shoulders of giants[edit]

I have here a picture in mind what we do normally with kids. Parents put them on their shoulders, so they can see more. So, they see the world from a different angle. Also some kids have the wish to climb on trees (which probably have seen many things in all the years, but don't tell to us). Becoming tall needs time. Change in position needs some effort, force to fight (against gravity), which kids don't have yet.

Isn't it most of the times easier in the wiki-verse to continue an existing page than creating a new one ? Don't most of the Wikipedia readers just consume (without giving back) ?


  • when reading the intro following associations popped up in my head:
dwarf -> Snow White
giants -> Titans

when searching in commons I found these pictures only which relate a little to the picture I had in mind:

Origins of the public library as a social institution[edit]

Fiolstræde2.jpg
  • I still get some books from the library, but I must say I like to buy them, because then I can write in them and others are not influenced when reading (when I edit a note in wiki others get influenced).
  • After seeing the pictures in the article I had the urge to show you one: Here is a youtube video of my university library (jump to position 3:10 to see the building from outside). In the video you can also see where I lived on campus :-)


TODO

Free Adult Education[edit]

Pdc université populaire amlr.png

Popular Education[edit]
  • Paulo Freire, started in Latin America for analphabetic farmers
goal: transfer knowledge and also change of society

TODO

Folk High School[edit]

TODO

Free Software Movement[edit]


TODO

fun section: not serious answers (perhaps they are ?)[edit]

1. Why access to information is important?

than ?

2. Why education is considered as a human right?

by ?

3. Who will benefit if the access to information and education is improved?

they (don't say it loud, not even think of it)

4. Who is afraid of the access for all and why?

they (don't say it loud, not even think of it)


"they": didn't you read Big Brother (1984) ?

2008 March 10 - OER week2: Introduction to LeMill and Wikiversity[edit]

So, we survived already the 1st week of the course. Assignment of week2 begins today.

my assignment for this week[edit]

>* You should register with LeMill or Wikiversity, contribute something in the form of constructive feedback in discussion forums, editing, or new page creation, then write one (1) blog post about the experience

Well, I am doing this already at Wikiversity. But I have an idea: I want to help the course participants (this means YOU) who decide to contribute here also.
Advantage:
  • perhaps this can help people being faster efficient here by getting appropriate hints ?
  • I don't know what the expectations of people were in the 1st week, but I personally expected that there was more interaction between each other and this could help perhaps ? Also saving time for Teemu + Hans :-)
Disadvantage: I fear this will cost some time and let's see if I can explore LeMill more.

survival guide for Wikiversity[edit]

>* Try to locate a group or project where people are working on some learning resource or study project that you could assist with, and join the group or project by notifying the other editors of your interest.

some hints how to proceed here:
  • can the course participants tell on a central page their interested areas ? e.g. here
This can be used to find others from this course having similar interest, so you would be already a team :-)
Please also don't forget to foster cooperation with other projects - so why not join with different people from here and there ?
  • Try the search button in Wikiversity (see left navigation bar)? Did it not bring good/enough results ? Perhaps this page might help: Wikiversity:Searching (there are the go- and search button, last one delivers more results) Besides the search there is also available the major portals where you can dive in. When you don't find anything, why not create it ?
  • There are the recent changes, where you can see what is actually being edited.
Advantage: if someone is editing at the moment, you can join hands with this person, because in some learning projects contributors are e.g. in vacation.
  • use all means to find people, e.g. the Wikiversity:Chat - try this link to go directly there. There should be always someone (Wikiversity:Support staff, ...) able/willing to help you.
  • You could e.g. ask in the Wikiversity:Colloquium also to find people who are interested in same topics.
  • If you found a learning project/page you can find people lately being active there over the "history"-button on top of each page or see the talk page.
  • on every user page you can find on the left navigation bar "Toolbox" the link: "E-mail this user" - if the person has activated email in his preferences (see tab "User profile" > E-mail > Enable e-mail from other users") she might react faster
  • I would recommend to go in yourself and search something where you have interest (e.g. hobby,...). This is what is always good when doing things.
  • I nearly forgot, this is the standard message a new user receives here: Template:Welcome
Probably there are still some questions or ? Either contact me or even better: write in the Wikiversity:Colloquium and even faster: visit the Wikiversity:Chat
Be bold !

expected outcome ?[edit]

>* As well as joining an existing project, start your own new content or wiki-page resource in LeMill or Wikiversity.

  • I think one result of this week could be a separate page about the experiences so that future participants will profit from this ?
  • And hopefully much more from you :-)

Questions I have at the moment[edit]

  • how many people will join ?
  • what happens when it is too much for me ? I think I will find some other good souls around here to help us.
  • Is this bad since I perhaps don't have the time to get to know LeMill more ?
  • Is this in the goal of the assignment ? I mean should people learn on their own or use such an offered advantage ?

TODO[edit]

why don't you edit that page if you get active here ?
  • write them on their talk page or email them ?
not done, if someone doesn't want to come here, don't spam him :-)
  • btw: is there a mailing list available ?

examples what was done already[edit]

observations[edit]

  • people still do not use the interaction possibility much (Wikiversity:Chat, ...) :-( Why isn't the collective mind used more ? You have a question ? Someone will know the answer and save e.g. you the time to search. Also you learn new people with this. Therefore when I post on their blogs, I try to reference other participant's blogs - a good example for interaction was that of Anica, see here
Today I saw 3 course participants successfully participate in the Wikiversity:Chat. Also from another participant I know she did this in the past. And from the others I assume now: they are already experts and selected nick names from which others can not infer who they are ;-)
The participation level of James is just incredible
  • I fear people expect that everything must be super perfect and such ? It is a wiki - if the next one finds your contribution this will already be a help - so just be bold - really. Imagine in 1 week doing a completely new project is impossible - I guess nobody expects that. Just start - it takes time to learn the wiki way.
  • I also try not to overwhelm them - perhaps it can be seen as too intrusive ? If I reply on their edits referencing the edit itself with a history link - perhaps they fear then: "Ah, each edit is observed ?" Just do more edits, then nobody will have the time to do so :-) And really we have other things to do then watch every step of yours :-)

2008 March 9 - making my notes to Thucydides: The Peloponnesian War available on Wikiversity[edit]

nothing dramatic: they can be found on the German Wikiversity here. Was thinking why I released it now: I assume it was because of these recent posts: Juan, Daan.

In case you don't know: our weekly chats are also published - here on Wikiversity

2008 March 4 - Composing free and open online educational resources[edit]

week1: 3rd post: Study the open education projects online and write a commentary about them in your blog.[edit]

There are given following 5 online projects where I should give a commentary :-) So, I will do this with an use case (in the hope to simulate a normal user): I am interested in history, at the moment in Thucydides: The Peloponnesian War (431-404 BC) - let's see if these projects can offer me information regarding this.

summary[edit]

  • licence: Wikiversity uses GNU FDL - all others use some kind of a CC licence
  • finding people with same interest: tags help to find easier other people with same interests, seen so far at LeMill.net, Open University - check the others also
Wikiversity hasn't something like this in this form, but there are categories, which could be used or user boxes
  • register an account: could not register an account at MIT OpenCourseWare, the other four offered this
  • could I as normal user find the info I wish ?
search gave back at least 1 hit for Thucydides and/or Peloponnesian War at:
Open University, MIT, Wikiversity, LeMill.net
  • multilanguage:
  • all wikimedia projects have several languages - a complete list you can find on meta. Especially for Wikiversity there is a "breeding ground": betawikiversity
To have a new Wikiversity site, you need ten active participants for the project. Then you can request (at meta) for a new language domain to be set up.
  • Also LeMill offers more pages in other languages, but I am not sure how much the percentage is
  • ...

Open University (UK) Open Content Initiative[edit]

visting at March 5th, 2008:
  • The website tells: "The OpenLearn website gives free access to course materials from The Open University."
  • Ok, I have an account now there.
  • seems they are more multimedia oriented: I see a world map, chat possibility, link to video meeting possibility
TODO: test this
  • I want to jump first to "Arts and History" :-)
I am a little impatient, so my search for Thucydides or Peloponnesian War does not reveal a hit - ok, let's scan the material then page by page
First thought: why not have the possibility to show all in one page ?
When using the main search I get 34 hits on the term Thucydides and 15 hits for Peloponnesian War
TODO: scan them
  • Aha: "Finding information in Arts and History": let's join it for a later read :-)
  • subscribe also to: "French Revolution"
So, more to come, gotta go

Rice Connexions[edit]

  • it says: "a place to view and share educational material made of small knowledge chunks called modules that can be organized as courses, books, reports, etc."
  • also have an account here now
  • TODO: read quick start + FAQ, TED Talk Richard Baraniuk - Talks about the Connexions project
  • licence used is: CC by 2.0
  • wow: in the confirmation email they offer a telephone number if I have problems

MIT OpenCourseWare[edit]

  • I remember somewhere in a deeper part of my brain cells, that I got this told by a friend. Probably also because of the MIT :-) Was before getting involved in wikimedia projects. But didn't do much more back then.
  • Well let's go the history department. I thought: perhaps they have something about Thucydides: The Peloponnesian War (431-404 BC) ? hehe, there might be something at The Ancient World: Greece: "...Thucydidean rationalism, and the Peloponnesian War; ..."
so, I found something there already which might interest me, didn't have yet the time to assess the quality of that info :-(
  • suggestion: perhaps they can implement a column with a time line of the courses to sort at the main page of the history department ? could help people to find info faster ?
  • licence: CC by-nc-sa 3.0

LeMill.net[edit]

  • it tells: "LeMill is a web community of 2156 teachers and other learning content creators. At the moment LeMill has 1127 reusable learning content resources, 206 descriptions of teaching and learning methods, and 387 descriptions of teaching and learning tools. If your learning resource is not yet in LeMill, please join the community and let's make it together."
  • ok, let's also register here then
  • here the history tag leads me to 37 other participants who I have the chance to contact
  • licence: Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License
  • got a result for "Peloponnesian War", but the page is not yet created - who knows, perhaps I might add some info :-)
  • offers and probably wants to be multilanguage
  • my collection
  • TODO: Take a Tour + read FAQ


  • no 24/7 service:
when going there 2008 March 4th, 18:37 UTC I see: "We are updating LeMill.net and the service is in read-only mode. You can browse LeMill, but not log in or edit content. The service will be back in few hours. Apologies for the inconvenience."
ok, let`s postpone my visit a little then
haha, when visiting commons 2 mins later I got:
Wikimedia Commons has a problem
Sorry! This site is experiencing technical difficulties.
Try waiting a few minutes and reloading.
(Can't contact the database server: Too many connections (10.0.0.231))

Wikiversity[edit]

Well, what do you expect now from me to write ? haha :-)
One of the most important things for it to work: trust. Most of us do this in our free time and don't even get paid.
Just thinking if I should write more BAD things about it :-) Let's see, have some more days until the assignments for week1 have to be delivered.
licence: GNU FDL


other participants[edit]

"The participants are expected to evaluate and give constructive feedback to each other through comments on other blogs and synthesis of other's ideas on their own blog." (see here).
edit 9th March:
I have now replied on a few blogs and some thoughts regarding this:
  • only a few don't allow immediate showing of comments
  • what kind of licence are their posts under ? I would like to cite them, but since nothing mentioned, I better don't quote :-( my edits here are under GNU FDL - but hey, just ask me and you can use it under another licence - what's the big deal ?
    • So I put a CC-BY on my blog. Erkan, I believe you are correct in suggesting all participants put some kind of licence on their blogs / posts... -- Prawstho 21:57, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Hello Peter, thanks for the initiative with the licence. Let's see how many others will follow. ----Erkan Yilmaz Wikiversity:Chat 22:00, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
  • I will call people now by their first name - hope nobody cries now ? :-)
  • I am not sure but from the yet 70 subscribed participants not all seem to participate - roughly I would say maximum 30 are out there ?
edit 10th March:
  • I must say that I wanted to write more on the blog posts itself, but the reading of the other blogs cost also much time than was available. So I had to make a decision - and I preferred the interaction with others :-)
  • I guess a hello doesn't hurt.
  • Visited some blogs and wrote in a few a comment, could use some for the microfinance argument (see above). Who knows, perhaps there could be even a cooperation with French Wikiversity ?
edit March 9th: Thanks to Jean-Marie there is something happening :-) see fr:Composer des ressources éducatives en ligne libres et ouvertes (see discussion)
  • Per's blog has in comparison to others a much different design. You immediately switch your attention there.
  • Can't tell you exactly why, but I found the animal pictures on Michelle's blog refreshing.
  • interesting wiki seen on Enric's blog.


edit 15th March: that is what I am talking about: more interaction - course participants contacting each other: 1

2008 March 3 - Composing free and open online educational resources[edit]

week1: 2nd post: Open Educational Resources: What they are and why do they matter?[edit]

thoughts about page3 of this pdf "Open Educational Resources: What they are and why do they matter?" by Ilkka Tuomi, October 2006, Report prepared for the OECD :
"Assume, assume": am I in a mathematics lecture ? Assume this and that :-) I am exaggerating, we are especially in a virtual world, so anything can be possible.
creating and access to OER: still people need either internet or hardware. I am wondering how much people in the developing countries can access them when they want/need it. E.g. me, when I want some info, I just search at any moment. access stats for Wikiversity.org from Alexa (that does not mean these stats are true at all, they are just stats and should be treated so)
speaking in general: there are concepts like Microfinance already giving very good examples. I am wondering why it takes so long then ?
edit 2008 March 4th:
sad: [18], [19], 2nd comment: I was not able to begin yesterday because there was a long power cut ( it happens here!!!), Barbara's blog
edit 2008 March 8th:
page 5: "Cognitive technologies will be used to repair defects in learning styles and to compensate the effects of aging."
sounds interesting, especially the latter part
page6: hehe Wikipedia is mentioned
edit 2008 March 9th:
page7: I am wondering how many of the course participants did ever help to make open source software better in any kind of form by mailing feedback, bugs, ... to the developers so that the community profits from this. From a simple: "Hi, your software is great" to telling: "there is a typo in the help" or "Do you guys know that this function does not work, when you do this and that? It's reproducable, but on another pc it is not :-(" If you did, please reply :-)


page26: examples for hierarchical levels of openness at Wikiversity:
see also the comments by Keith and Rosmareri.


Openness I (access and accessibility):
  • users can not edit e.g. the Wikiversity:Main Page, only read it because it is protected
  • "available but in a language that is incomprehensible for the user"
happens sometimes people don't see there is betawikiversity and input here the content and I have the chance then to find out in which language this is written :-) E.g. we also have language departments here, see School:Language and literature.
  • "or because some disabilities make the content unusable for some users"
definitely: wondering if there is a learning project about "how to improve Wikiversity content for disabled persons" ?
Openness II (the right and capability to enjoy the services generated by the resource):
example given which tells: to use content to pass a course with the users should be able to gain formal degrees if they so choose.
well in this OER course it says: "At the end of the course the facilitators (Teemu and Hans) will provide PASS, FAIL or COMPLEMENTARY WORK REQUIRED statements for each participant."
Here at Wikiversity there is no formal degrees, see also Will I earn a diploma at Wikiversity?: "No. That's one thing we don't do. At the moment you cannot earn credentials here. But you can learn here and then earn your credentials elsewhere. For now this is about the learning itself, by itself."
Openness III (the right and capability to modify, repackage, and add value to the resource):
we are a wiki, see also: Wikiversity:Be bold; also fair use possible
page28ff: learned something about the history of copyright - thanks Ilkka

week1: 1st post: personal introduction[edit]

Regarding the introduction I am asked to make 3 posts - the first about introducing myself:
For me as Wikiversity user: I like the idea and I wanted to grab the chance.
  • >You may also use audio or video to present yourself.
perhaps later and in addition with the Wiki Campus Radio. If someone wants to hear my voice click here (even on the risk you laugh too much about it) and read here the story about it.
things in my mind at the moment:
  • I want to use not a regular blog system, but this page in wiki style. Probably it will not work with the Jaiku channel :-( Let's see if I am forced and must either boost it up with RSS feeds or change to another blog system.
I am eager to appear also on the Jaiku, so I decided to post on my other blog with RSS feed links to here, so others see me also in the list. group pressure ? ;-)
  • deadlines of posts each week are until Sunday 23:59 UTC ?
  • can people join afterwards ?
I fear: no
  • what licence does this pdf have ? (for citing)
All rights reserved. Fair use (such as citing it in context) seems ok, for other things it's probably best to ask permission from the author.
edit 09th March: see also Jean-Marie's post


edit 2008 March 4th:
  • As you can and will see, I just write here some things an continue to add more to it during the next days: wiki style. I am wondering if some of the other participants do this also like this ?
  • I am wondering, since we have in the group many teachers I might ask them one day: what do you think contributing at a public place where everyone can edit posts ? Would they think of things like: my original idea gets lost due to other persons edits ? manipulation ?
Do they know, that the community looks after this ? They are mostly not seen, but they are there. I am not sure if it can be compared to an invisible hand (Adam Smith) ? Do they know about ideas like: page protection ?
edit 2008 March 9th: see Luca, Jean-Marie, Annika, Jeanette

References[edit]

  1. Artikel Zeitalter der Aufklärung. In: Wikipedia, Die freie Enzyklopädie. Bearbeitungsstand: 29. Februar 2008, 09:09 UTC. URL: http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Zeitalter_der_Aufkl%C3%A4rung&oldid=43122077 (Abgerufen: 23. März 2008, 08:56 UTC)
  2. Artikel Zeitalter der Aufklärung. In: Wikipedia, Die freie Enzyklopädie. Bearbeitungsstand: 29. Februar 2008, 09:09 UTC. URL: http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Zeitalter_der_Aufkl%C3%A4rung&oldid=43122077 (Abgerufen: 23. März 2008, 09:14 UTC)

observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2008 February

You are invited to add your comments (e.g. but my perception of this issue is different) - please sign anything you add (howto Wikiversity:Signature).


2008 February 3 - contacting different organizations to foster collaboration & The Cape Town Open Education Declaration[edit]

  • The Cape Town Open Education Declaration:
More info here - don't forget to sign it. Available translations here.
So far 1313 signatures (1210 persons + 103 organizations), e.g. Wikimedia (Germany, France, UK, USA)
2011-10-22: 2281 individuals + 242 organizations added, not that much tbh after 3.5 years, why?
  • Following organizations were contacted to foster cooperation with Wikiversity:
edit 2011-10-22: nothig lasting, though I guess de.WV + en.WV have their reputation + attract from themselves

2008 February 2 - why not increase collaboration with wikisource ?[edit]

Portal_talk:Reading_groups#public_domain_texts
edit 2011-10-22: I've respect for WS people: their way of work needs attention, I think their work is undervalued, from what I see it's just the core of them which make the work, but when they once die or leave WS will die too :-( though there was some funding (or was that for Wiktionary?)

observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2008 January

You are invited to add your comments (e.g. but my perception of this issue is different) - please sign anything you add (howto Wikiversity:Signature).


2008 January 29 - You are kidding ? Wikiversity is (also) about learning (?)[edit]

Some learning mechanisms:

  1. habituation
  2. classical conditioning
  3. operant conditioning
  4. exploring/game (Spielverhalten)
  5. imitation -> learning by observing
  6. recombinant behavior -> cognitive learning
  7. imprinting
  8. tradition

Thanks for the references, this is great information about learning about learning! --Ncouture 11:21, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

great to hear :-) ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat + Identi.ca 11:14, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

edit 2011-10-21:

  • made this into a table with links to other languages
  • the user from above: did not edit more here, why?


2008 January 28 - German WV participates in the "year of mathematics" by the "Federal Ministry of Education and Research"[edit]

In Germany the year of mathematics has started (more info here by the Federal Ministry of Education and Research BMBF (Bundesministerium für Bildung und Forschung)). Not only because of this German Wikiversity has initiated a project called Mathematics is everywhere (Mathematik ist überall). German WV applied for the event and participates now as sole non-profit organization so far and got also the logo for usage at WV.

Mathematics is everywhere at German Wikiversity

edit 2011-10-21: no results

2008 January 27 - history of WV[edit]

While reconstructing the history of German Wikiversity (for the history of en.WV see here, for el.WV see here) it seems that from the initial 5 members of Wikiversity only two are actively participating. Perhaps we might get the others back again on board ?
earliest known written evidence (please update, if you find earlier evidence):
Wikiversity date where ?
en.WV 2003 August Wikibooks
de.WV 2004 September meta (Wikibooks 2005 February)
it.WV 2004 November Wikibooks (meta 2006 September)
es.WV 2004 November Wikibooks
fr.WV 2005 January Wikibooks
(request on 2006 August)
beta 2006 August betawikiversity
el.WV 2007 July meta


edit 2011-10-21: all gone now

2008 January 23 - whiteboard feature for Sandbox Server 0.5[edit]

Imagine a student, sitting in her chair and watching the board where the teacher has just written something.
Sounds boring ? Well, perhaps not:
  • if your chair is located not in the school building and
  • the board you see is a whiteboard on your notebook and
  • your teacher is 500 miles away :-)
a 2 mins test and it seems to work: Image:Whiteboard feature - test with Coccinella.jpg (another example)
needs to be tested more (e.g. with more than 2 people) - how to log in on the Sandbox Server 0.5

edit 2011-10-22:

  • did not succeed due to Sandbox Server never getting really off the ground
  • the only thing which survived over the years is the WV:Chat

2008 January 19 - new WV main pages & status of reading group "Thucydides: The Peloponnesian War"[edit]

  • new main page layout
The French Wikiversity has a new main page since 16th January. Also recently en.WV and www.wikiversity.org got a new layout.
So far some people showed interest in the reading group:
Unfortunately the announcement in various WVs and WBs did not bring new participants. Therefore there could be thought about how to improve this situation, since the heart of the group still consists of two people (thanks Daan). We will continue and hope for more people to join.
Some reasons which might hinder others to participate more could be:
  • no time or too much to read in total (per session so far 25 aphorisms were to read) and therefore too longterm project ?
  • not interesting enough ?
  • language difficulties ?
  • a desire to be entertained instead of doing something that appears to be like homework ?
  • please add :-)
edit 2008-Feb.-4: who would have thought this to happen

edit 2011-10-21:

2008 January 15 - Wikipedia Signpost and Wikiversity & I must be crazy, really :-)[edit]

  • What might be written about Wikiversity and other wikimedia projects in the future issue: see here


This user must have gone CRAZY
see here.


I have now publicly offered a recently registered de.WV member that for each new member he woos, I will invest x mins of my lifetime to review articles: [20]. Let's see the reaction to this marketing initiative


edit 2011-10-21:

2008 January 14 - translation status Wikiversities + what you can find on commons[edit]

translation status of not yet established Wikiversities:

...can be seen here, e.g. for the Turkish Wikiversity it is (request page on meta):
Most often
used messages
Extensions used
by Wikimedia
MediaWiki
messages
All
extensions
93.35% 12.13% 69.36% 3.35%
From all the languages only the following have for all 4 values good percentages (I am not sure if the values from above link are updated - but if it is uptodate not for all 4 fields are needed high values to found a WV - when looking at the values from the so far six established WVs): ar, en, fr, gl, hsb, nl, oc, sk.
edit 2008-Januar-28:
Question: How can I help ?
Answer: Slave, you dare to ask ? Your punishment therefore is: start translating (see here)


what can you find on commons?

click usage on
wikimedia projects
Image:Ass.jpg [21]
Category:Nude women
Category:Nude men
Category:Nudity
You may ask yourself, why I searched for this of course :-)
Don't get funny ideas now, we were talking about a contest on IRC and then I searched for a keyword and found the above. I wonder what else you can find in the large commons archives (commons statistics). But interesting is: I did not try this special keyword before, because somehow I assumed on commons I would not find "such" things :-) You can always be wrong in your thinking patterns.

edit 2011-10-21

  • commons: still there ;-) I love commons attitude
  • Turkish WV: never got off the ground

2008 January 13 - votes for sysops and bots[edit]

Since the Greek Wikiversity is now launched, there are votes already going on for sysops and bots. Unfortunately not all requests are in English available :-( I also have some questions. If you want to vote, click here.

2008 January 12: request for Greek Wikiversity has been approved ![edit]

Don't forget to vote :-)

2008 January 07: cooperation with robots.wikia.com ?[edit]

Let's see what kind of cooperation can be with Wikiversity.

edit 2011-10-22:

  • nothing much more, I guess that guy was expecting something else


observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2007 December

You are invited to add your comments (e.g. but my perception of this issue is different) - please sign anything you add (howto Wikiversity:Signature).


2007 December 23 - Jabber with the Sandbox Server[edit]

We just made a session to chat over the Sandbox Server (howto)

edits 2011-10-21:

  • the king is dead, long live the king [22]
  • learning needs the mentality, also by those facilitating it

2007 December 16 - teamwork with de.WB[edit]

Thanks to a de.WB member we have now a new course more: de:Kurs:Zitron - which will be a constructed language.

edit 2011-10-21:

  • though at some places I said there's collaboration between de.Wb + de.WV in the long term it was not
    • perhaps because de.WB had few contributors?
    • another thought: easily all content from de.WB could be also done in de.WV -> fear?
      • though I'm for exporting things to WB, but for incubating: WV is a better place

2007 December 5 - IRC meeting: "What is Wikiversity?"[edit]

If you have time join the discussion Saturday (8th December 2007).

2007 December 2 - Happy Birthday french WV[edit]

[23]

observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2007 November

You are invited to add your comments (e.g. but my perception of this issue is different) - please sign anything you add (howto Wikiversity:Signature).


2007 November 27 - collecting content from other wikimedia projects[edit]

There exists now a learning project at German WV: de:Projekt:Fundstücke aus anderen Wikimedia-Projekten
See also here at 2007 October 6 for the Wikiversity:Wikimedia Garbage Detail

edit 2011-10-12:

  • deletions are a very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very controversial topic
  • see also [24]

2007 November 17 - Greek Wikiversity - final approval ? & paper about WV[edit]

  • Greek Wikiversity final approval ?
Unfortunately not all comments are available.
edit 2007-11-20: seems not good or ?
  • paper about WV:
Today there was someone in the German chat who is going to write about Wikiversity in a seminary called "Seminar zu Design und Analyse von Web 2.0 Projekten" (there will also be a topic about Wikibooks). Let's see what will come out.
Was the one who will write about Wikibooks also there? Or was he/she in the wb channel? Do you know that? It seems to me that their tutor (Tischler) likes wiki and open source. :) -- 89.50.54.64 aka heuler06 17:14, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Only de:Benutzer:Franz was at #wikiversity-de - perhaps he could give you details about the other person ? ----Erkan Yilmaz (Wikiversity:Chat, wiki blog) 17:53, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
This is interesting - will they be reporting back somehow, or will we have to nominate someone to keep tabs on the seminar? (Will that someone be you, Erkan? :-)) Cormaggio talk 09:59, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Since the seminar will be in 1 month, I guess he will soon start. I have contacted him also now. I just saw a rough draft some time ago in the chat. Other questions of him can be found here (in German). We offered him help - regarding information - but of course he should do the work for himself :-) ----Erkan Yilmaz (Wikiversity:Chat, wiki blog) 17:03, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
The presentation and the paper (29 pages) are available now in German language, ----Erkan Yilmaz (Wikiversity:Chat, wiki blog) 17:37, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

edit 2011-10-21:

2007 November 11 - what will happen if you start talking to yourself ?[edit]

Let's see what happens: incubator:User_talk:Erkan_Yilmaz

you are bored too much ;-) -- 83.133.5.85 aka heuler06 07:47, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Hello heuler06, that was not the expected reaction I thought would happen, but this reaction is better than nothing. ----Erkan Yilmaz (Wikiversity:Chat, wiki blog) 11:25, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
We all talk to ourselves! A blog can be a running conversation with ourselves - which often hopes to include others in that conversation. As to "what will happen?", that can actually be quite a profound question, with profound answers. But as to whether we need to ask ourselves 'how we are', well, I think that may be pushing the idea of a conversation. ;-) Cormaggio talk 10:04, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

edit 2011-10-21:

2007 November 10 - Wikiversity flyer[edit]

  • de.WV flyer:
I hope we can finalize the German Wikiversity flyer proposal soon (hopefully still this year :-)). Let's awaken people again.
edit 2007-12-16: I think today we made one big step forward towards the realization of the German WV flyer. The salutation issue was decided (will be used the masculine form, though we have still different opinions, including me). For version 2 of the flyer we can optimize again.

edit 2011-10-21:

2007 November 5 - for some people I will suffer freely :-)[edit]

[25]

2007 November 4 - no activity by users from universities, so what can we do about this?[edit]

de.WV recently had some edits regarding a course about Artificial Intelligence from an university. Plans were to use Wikiversity as a web platform besides the real life lecture. Unfortunately there are no edits anymore :-) So there were 2 people contacted from the team to get more feedback.
edit: Fast reply by the responsible persons. They will join again next year with another course. See you then.
Contacted also another responsible from another university who was active in April at de.WV

edit 2011-10-21:

  • the situation at de.WV in regards to universities is better now
  • though that also paralyzed the open nature of de.WV :-(

2007 November 2 - throw some chocolate into the German Wikiversity forum[edit]

...and let's see what will happen :-)

edit 2011-10-21:

  • I guess they though I'm crazy ;-)
  • as far as I remember was more positive than negative

2007 November 1 - how to revive the de:Wikiversity:Chat ?[edit]

  • how to revive the de.WV chat ?
Today I have included in my signature the link to the de:Wikiversity:Chat. I hope with this to increase peoples attention to it and coordinating things might get easier then. We are not so many at the moment at de.WV. I hope people can ask directly then for assistance and get others to participate in things they normally just scroll by in the Recent changes list. This is the first step, let's see if it will work.
edit 2008-03-17: changed my signature like this:
en.WV: --Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try)
de.WV: --Erkan Yilmaz benutzt den Wikiversity:Chat (versuch's mal)

edit 2011-10-21:

  • I have written at many places at de.WV + en.WV over the time + I guess this form of marketing is not so effective :-)

observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2007 October

You are invited to add your comments (e.g. but my perception of this issue is different) - please sign anything you add (howto Wikiversity:Signature).



2007 October 31 - discussion about criteria for an account to have bot flag at de.WV[edit]

At the moment we are discussing here about above topic. The bot operators were all invited to take part.

2007 October 30 - new de.WV chat users[edit]

  • two new faces in the de.WV chat
The de.WV chat #wikiversity-de is often only visited by the usual people. Today a new WV-member followed the invitation and we had a longer chat. This week also another user joined. Let's see if they stay around :-)

edit 2011-10-21:

  • de.WV chat never got much interaction, perhaps mentality of German?
  • en.WV more frequent users, though since the "incidents" people left also here :-(

2007 October 22 - German Wikiversity has voted its slogan[edit]

  • winning slogan: Lernen und Lehren (english: learning and teaching)
The German Wikiversity has voted after over 6 months of discussion and votes its slogan. It is Lernen und Lehren (english: learning and teaching). More information available here

edit 2011-10-21:

  • see [26]
  • and right now I think: slogans or so are fine, but actions of people show the real face of a wiki

2007 October 17 - el.Wikiversity: Conditionally approved[edit]

edit 2011-10-21:

  • I think it's great that since back then many more WVs were created
  • beta Wikiversity should get more attention
    • somehow never people from individual/existing WVs got more activity there though they really could help + multiply the efforts by help
      • also they would learn from this by the questions/problems others have

2007 October 14 - Wikimedian Demographics & reactivating users again & helping at es.WV & use your vote[edit]

I also set up the Survey responses page. I am interested how this will evolve, since we are at the begin of this project. You have opinions ? State them at: Talk:Wikimedian Demographics
  • trying to activate not contributing users again:
My assumption is following: If users replied back on the welcome message this might show they are really willing to contribute to this project. But due to different (internal or external) reasons some stopped contributing. So, I scrolled through my talk page and wanted to check their contributions. Since there is established already from back then a connection here in this project there might be a chance to motivate them again to participate here.
Unfortunately few of them have activated their emails, because I assume with email they could be reached faster. So a message on their talk pages was written. Let's see what the reaction will be.
edit 2007-10-17: so far more replies by German Wikiversity users. They have also mainly email activated :-)
  • Helping at Spanish Wikiversity:
Actually it is not so hard to help other wikiversity projects - you just have to know the tools which can help you. I do not speak Spanish, but was asked by a user in IRC and could help him in several cases - with using an online Spanish to English translation service.


edit 2011-10-21:

  • I remember the times when I welcomed too many
    • welcoming should be done by bots + if humans welcome then after reviewing edits + guiding perhaps like mentors

2007 October 11 - de.WB + chess[edit]

  • Thanks to the German Wikibooks channel I have started playing chess again. Thanks for the nice games: T., S., h. To great games in the future.

2007 October 6 - intelligent bots & import work from other wikimedia projects (which gets deleted)[edit]

  • Perhaps someone can create or knows a bot which identifies such comments as not appropriate in Wikipedia ? And then we would not need another edit by the SineBot at all.
  • Normally when I see copy + paste of Wikipedia I write a comment to the author (see e.g. Wikiversity:What Wikiversity is not, section: "A duplication of other Wikimedia projects"). But today I have seen for the first time something different. JWSchmidt has "rescued" this page to Wikiversity. While chating with him I got to know this project: Wikiversity:Wikimedia Garbage Detail - great idea and probably one of the means to achieve the mission of Wikiversity.
edit 2013-12-11:

edit 2011-10-21:

2007 October 4 - immediate bot fix[edit]

  • I love the IRC wiki system: I tell someone a problem and 8 minutes later the problem gets fixed. Thanks again for all the help with the bot in the past (and for the future)

2007 October 3 - #wikiversity-it[edit]

  • Today I had in #wikiversity-it for the first time a longer conversation - thanks for the nice chat.

2007 October 1 - try the good old lynx[edit]

  • browser problems ? try it with the good old lynx:
We talked about which browser is good (for e.g. working with wiki). And I mentioned just as joke lynx and after trying: I must say it works. But it is not so comfortable as a "normal" browser. :-)


edit 2011-10-12:

  • lynx not much used for wiki editing, though with the presence of mobiles nowadays GUI layout of wikis need to be rethought

observations from Erkan Yilmaz for 2007 September

You are invited to add your comments (e.g. but my perception of this issue is different) - please sign anything you add (howto Wikiversity:Signature).



2007 September 30 - one year anniversary at German Wikiversity & magic words[edit]

  • one year anniversary at German Wikiversity
So, how to celebrate the 1 year anniversary at de.WV ? Of course with importing pages from en.Wikibooks to en.WV :-) btw: normally I love pictures, but in the process of importing not so much :-(
  • useful magic words
meta:Help:Magic words, Using MediaWiki Variables

edit 2011-10-21:

2007 September 29 - Wikimedia Conference Netherlands 2007[edit]

  • Wikimedia Conference Netherlands 2007:
Did you see already the Wikimedia Conference Netherlands for 2007 with the topic: "Wiki’s en education" ?
Some presentations worth to see (here is the complete list):

2007 September 26 - live meeting ?[edit]

  • live meeting:
I have asked if some people from German Wikiversity want to meet live - let's see.

edit 2011-10-21:

  • did never work out

2007 September 25 - Wikiversity screen saver[edit]

Today was released the Wikiversity screen saver to the public (go to the English and German version). Progress is ongoing also for the French version. And especially for my favorite not yet existing channel: the Greek one I would like to see this in use - I hope we can gather more awareness with this. I am also interested how this project will evolve over time.
edit 2007-09-25:
edit 2007-09-29:
The Spanish version es:Wikiversidad:Protector de pantalla is now translated. Gracias to Johann and Lupus.
Thanks to Fede Reghe and Senpai the Italian version is translated: it:Wikiversità:Salvaschermo.
edit 2007-oct-03:
All wikiversities have now version 0.04 of the screen saver.

edit 2011-10-21:

2007 September 23 - inter wiki cooperation & collaborative testing and fixing[edit]

  • nice inter wiki cooperation - fighting v.nd.l.sm:
alarmed by a de.WB user me - a mainly more WV active user - searched for someone to block this v.nd.l because no de.Wb admin online. With the help of en.WV admins the stewards were located and a french steward blocked the vandal - thank you all
  • collaborative testing and fixing:
how could one approach of collaborative testing and fixing look like on Wikiversity ? see here. Thanks again to Robert Elliott for informing us about this anomaly.

edit 2011-10-21

  • Robert still missing?
  • I think I had in the specific de.WB action more ulterior motives, which I also felt back then, not in terms of getting a position there, but it felt ulterior

2007 September 17 - German Wikiversity Slogan[edit]

Voters are now required for the 4th and final round (21.09.2007 to 21.10.2007) to have an account at German WV and at least 51 useful edits. Happy voting
edit 2007-09-19: MF-Warburg was again helpful (see also 2007-09-13): he provided a tool to check if users are eligible to vote, more info here
edit 2007-09-21: last round of the voting has begun - my vote goes to "lernen und lehren" (learning and teaching) - my favorites over time can be seen here

edit 2011-10-21:

  • was a nice time back then, good interactions

2007 September 16 - reactions on reponse time pics & each IRC channel has its own "thing"[edit]

  • reactions on reponse time pics
About the response times (which I posted yesterday) I got already responses in the French, German and English (here so far only in #wikiversity-en) Wikiversities. Merci Sharayanan for translating it into French.
And as asked, I will repeat this data collection again.
edit 2007-09-17: feedback
edit 2007-09-22: the text in the Spanish Wikiversity is also translated now - gracias to Johann
  • each IRC channel has its own "thing"
If you stay long enough in one Wikiversity channel you will realize each channel has its own habbits (what they tell or do when they have some spare time or to greet new entering members,...). This helps that the team relations get stronger. Find out yourself for each channel what it is, I won't tell, even if you torture me :-)
A team[1] is:
  • a social unit with 3 or more persons,
  • whose members are recognized from the outside as such members and they see themselves as members (identity)
  • they are integrated in an organization (context)
  • and they perform together tasks through direct collaboration/team work.
  1. Högl, M. (1998): Teamarbeit in innovativen Projekten : Einflußgrößen und Wirkungen. Gabler, Deutscher Universitäts Verlag, Wiesbaden. page 10

2007 September 15 - difference between Wikibooks and Wikiversity ? - service quality in the Wikiversity forums ?[edit]

  • What is the difference between Wikibooks and Wikiversity ?
Today German Wikiversity received again feedback in how WV differentiates from WikiBooks. This is not a single case, where people not involved in WV don't see the difference to WikiBooks (e.g. 10. Aug. 2007). Not to mention how many people even do not give feedback about this problem and just think it. I hope also that after the ongoing German WV slogan voting, it will become clearer. Since the slogan voting participation is not so much as hoped, I guess this process will also come the more people join German WV.
  • Can we tell something about the service quality in the Wikiversity forums ?
I was interested in how fast people get a response (I mean response, not a 100% fully satisfying answer) in the forums of each WV.
The decision was made for this heuristic to gather fast + easy data over all wikiversities.
used method:
from each WV forum there was determined when a user posted (e.g. can be a question, announcement, ...), this user type is called from now on asker. And then there was calculated the time how fast this asker got a response - persons answering are called repliers.
collection time: about 1,5 months (1st August 2007, 11:14 (UTC) - 15 September 2007, 14:51 (UTC))
considerations:
  • Besides the user (talk) pages or the different school/topic/class pages and their talk pages the forum is regarded as the central point of each Wikiversity.
  • It is not considered if the quality of the response is good or not or how fast later on it is answered again. So far of interest is only the first contact (response). Reason: normally in the beginning askers' expectations are stamped.
  • Of course due to different countries there may be different things to consider: e.g. different vacation times, ...
  • Also depending on the time of the edit (e.g. writing after midnight and then asker would get a response the next morning perhaps)
  • and more
Therefore again: it was decided for this heuristic to gather fast + easy data over all wikiversities. It is sure that there is missing info about the context - so inferring things from the pictures is not useful without knowing the context. And I bet few of us have the insight to all the info needed.
How fast does a user get a response in the English Wikiversity forum (7 Aug. 2007 - 15 Sep. 2007)
How fast does a user get a response in the different Wikiversity forums collection time is (1st August 2007 to - 15 September 2007)
en de it fr es
picture for each Wikiversity click here for en.WV click here for de.WV click here for it.WV click here for fr.WV click here for es.WV
Amount of asker posts 19 37 6 27 19
Min. response time (in minutes)
after asker posted
11 5 3 2 66
How many different
askers were there ?
15 18 5 14 15
First considered asker post (UTC) 02:18, 7 Aug. 2007 13:34, 1 Aug. 2007 17:50, 6 Aug. 2007 11:14, 1 Aug. 2007 17:12, 10 Aug. 2007
Last considered asker post (UTC) 14:51, 15 Sep. 2007 14:10, 15 Sep. 2007 20:19, 11 Sep. 2007 10:37, 15 Sep. 2007 14:07, 15 Sep. 2007
forum link Colloquium Cafeteria Bar di Wikiversità La salle café Claustro Wikiversitario


edit 2011-10-21:

  • thankfully difference discussions abouts WB + WV are over :-)
  • service quality: well, WV has less contributors than e.g. WP, any help is nice (which does not make others leave)
    • I remember from back then some reservation against this service quality, thinking perhaps not starting it would have been better
    • showed some signs of snobism by me?



2007 September 13 - importing & contacting users again & #wikiversity-el bot unilinky[edit]

  • Import of pages:
I imported old Wikiversity pages from Wikibooks to here. This can end in much work, depending on the content (content check, link check, import files,...). I really hug from now on everybody who imports pages and not to forget the people importing in the past. BTW: the imported things were: School:Very Small Information Systems, The Great War and Versailles‎, School:Military Studies.
  • Contacting users again in the hope they come back:
Before deleting any pages it can be valuable to write the authors again. If you see there is no contribution since long time, write also an email. As you can see 2 out of 3 users reacted and one person is hopefully continuing participation in Wikiversity. Examples: [27], [28].
  • #wikiversity-el got its own bot unilinky:
Today #wikiversity-el got its own bot unilinky (thx to MF-Warburg). Well, slowly this new IRC channel comes close to the features of the other WV channels. Also we had a new record: 6 persons were in the channel.

2007 September 12 - IRC cloak & Greek Wikiversity[edit]

  • IRC cloak:
I am recommending everybody I met so far to get an IRC cloak. I got mine in 2 days. If you don't have one, get one.
  • Greek Wikiversity:
  • had just a nice long chat in the Greek WV channel. Topics: the new pic of the el.WV (momentary draft7 here). And longer chat about WV in general in comparison to normal research journals where article get published (OR NOT :-)). And about human greed.
  • While testing something with a Greek Wikiversity friend I set up my Greek Wikipedia account. And of course I got a very fast welcome message :-)
  • Greek Wikiversity proposal has also now my vote.

edit 2011-10-21:

  • cloak is not that important anymore
    • people can see my IP, I can also tell 'em if they want
  • I recommend helping in other WVs
    • it helps to get a broaden vision
    • learning by teaching

2007 September 11 - Uighur Wikipedia + administrator voting[edit]

  • Uighur Wikipedia + administrator voting:
I was asked to vote for the candidates for administrator at the Uighur Wikipedia. I have added some comments to all 3 candidates and also requested some mentorship and minimum requirements for the new admin. They have so far no admin at all :-(

edit 2011-10-21:

  • I think I had 1 to 3 more encounters in that category
    • mostly it was about fighting, what do those guys think now after 3 years?

2007 September 10 - my image of Wikiversity[edit]

  • my image of Wikiversity:
At the moment the German Wikiversity is searching for a slogan. I wanted to list what my favorites were so far over time (please remember that some of them could not continue for the next round, when there were not enough votes). But I hope this gives an overview of what I think of Wikiversity. Also I am curious what I will think when rereading this in the future. You know, with every day you get new emotions, ideas, ...

preferred slogans over time:

date German English
May 18th, 2007 lernen, handeln, lehren learning, acting, teaching
Es gibt noch viel zu lernen! There is still much to learn!
Wikiversity die freie Lernplattform
(nach Wikipedia Die freie Enzyklopädie)
Wikiversity the free platform for learning
Aug. 2nd, 2007 lebenslang? ja, lernen! lifelong? yes, learning!
Was willst du wissen? What do you want to know?
Sometimes questions are more important than answers Sometimes questions are more important than answers
Gemeinsam Wissen schaffen creating knowledge together
Man kann einen Menschen nichts lehren,
man kann ihm nur helfen, es in sich selbst zu entdecken.
You can not teach a human,
you can only help him, to find it in himself.
Aug. 15th, 2007 Was willst du wissen? What do you want to know?
Lehren und Lernen (bzw. Lernen und Lehren) teaching and learning (or learning and teaching)
Wikiversity - Gemeinsam Lernen, Lehren, Forschen Wikiversity - together learning, teaching, exploring
Sept. 10th, 2007 Lernen und Lehren learning and teaching
Bildung für alle education for everybody
Was willst du wissen? What do you want to know?

edit 2011-10-21:

  • strangely reading none of them gave the thrill from back then
  • I guess I'd focus on a term which focusses more on the individual learning part
    • because even for brick + mortar learning this is important
  • thought later was this

2007 September 08 - nice chats[edit]

  • nice start of day:
I got warm welcomes this morning in #wikiversity-fr, #wikiversity-el and #wikiversity-it - that is a great way to start the day. Well, since I only know a few sentences in Greek and less in Italian, this limits it to English in these channels. But in the French channel I have the opportunity to increase my French skills again. Merci a #wikiversity-fr !

2007 September 07 - audio conference & Where would you like to see Wikiversity in 6 months? & #wikiversity-el & #wikiversity-fr[edit]

  • audio conference:
Today I met two other custodians in an audio conference. I knew already one of the attendees voice from the Wiki editing tutorial on youtube.
But it makes much more fun, when you also get responses :-) The IAX client software MozPhone is another tool which lets you catch much better the atmosphere of Wikiversity.
Feedback about used technology: I had no technical setup problems with MozPhone. Also the audio quality seemed fine for me. Though for one participant there was a round trip delay.
  • I was asked "Where would you like to see Wikiversity in 6 months?":
(12:11:37)<Erkan_Yilmaz>fast answer without thinking much: somewhere without v.nd.ls
(12:11:44)<Erkan_Yilmaz>longer thinking will come now
(12:11:49)<Erkan_Yilmaz>what do you think btw ? (note: I did not omit the answer, the person was just not available)
...
(12:13:29)<Erkan_Yilmaz>only with word-of-mouth recommendation Wikiversity will grow
(12:13:46)<Erkan_Yilmaz>so one way could be: using the forces with 100% to these target groups (teachers and their classes) could help WV
(12:14:15)<Erkan_Yilmaz>so the answer would be: I would like to see more WV activities with mentoring teachers and their students. Everyone can do this actually, but we custodians - due to our experiences - have a great advantage, we can guide people better.
Addition later: of course there are other projects which are not generated from "old-style" school/universities like Bloom Clock. In general we should help everyone, but we are only few and the day just has 24 hours. To use an analogy: flowers need to be cared for intensively, so they will shine and attract the bees :-) And while scanning Wikiversity in daily routine we can filter the flowers which need attention.
  • The birth of a new Wikiversity channel - #wikiversity-el:
Today you missed the birth of the new Greek Wikiversity channel: #wikiversity-el
There is also a proposal ongoing to create a Wikiversity in Greek language. Until then you can have a peak here for the Greek Wikiversity main page.
In case you wonder how long it takes to set up an IRC Wikiversity channel: it is 1,5 minutes :-)
at #wikiversity
(17:15:09)<person1>alternatively I wonder how we could create an el channel
(17:16:11)<Erkan_Yilmaz>you just type in: /j #wikiversity-el
(17:16:13)<person2>not so difficult I think
(17:16:25)<person2>but I have no experiance with this
(17:16:30)<person1>maybe that's worth it... let me see.
(17:17:41)<person1>so, person3, did you get that? join the #wikiversity-el channel.
(17:18:39)<person3>ok
at #wikiversity-el
(17:16:39)- You are now in #wikiversity-el
(17:16:40)- person1 joined
(17:16:44)<Erkan_Yilmaz>hello
(17:16:47)<person2>Geia sas
(17:16:51)<Erkan_Yilmaz>oh no :-)
(17:17:08)<person1>Γεια, και τώρα περιμένουμε τον τρίτο...  :-)
(17:17:08)<Erkan_Yilmaz>I will just stay as observer here - see you
(17:17:16)- person2 has set the topic: The greek IRC channel
(17:17:56)- person3 joined
  • the friendly #wikiversity-fr people:
I must say the French are very nice people. Though they did not know me, they welcomed me friendly.
And since my French language skills are not as good as my English, they did not mind to talk in English.
Merci Sharayanan, ZeqL, Karl1263, dcrochet

edit 2011-20-21:

  • strangely I use audio less lately
  • el.WV chat very empty
  • still true: fr.WV people friendly, but also other WV people :-)
  • see also Brick and mortar collaboration at beta

2007 September 06 - IRC part2[edit]

  • IRC is great:
I like IRC, doesn't matter when you come online, always somebody around. This makes all wiki projects much more vivid. I thought I knew WV, but with IRC you get much more to know - how things REALLY work. As JWSchmidt said, people new to WV should use IRC more. One goal is now to get peoples attention to it.

2007 September 03 - IRC & en.WV[edit]

  • use IRC as much as you can:
I am using IRC as communication medium very often when communicating with Wikiversity participants (e.g. with JWSchmidt - my custodian mentor). I think without this, it would be harder to get to know e.g. the atmosphere of English Wikiversity. Though :I am already custodian at German Wikiversity, there are great differences in both WVs.
  • about different timezones:
I have also noticed, that the different timezones of the custodians can be also an advantage. While some custodians get their earned sleep, the others are able to continue (helping new members, ...). :So we can offer nearly a 24h service. Remember we all do this because we believe in the wiki system - not for money.
  • There is definitely more happening in English WV (e.g. see some statistics until today - 2007 September 3rd):
Statistics about some Wikiversities (date: 2007 September 3rd)
Wikiversity users pages articles files custodians UTC time of data collection
(date: 2007 September 3rd)
English 13252 37713 4707 3012 22 11:26
French 1208 8480 2529 4 12 11:24
German 1647 5462 455 303 8 13:27
Spanish 2119 2066 454 2 9 11:22
Italian 350 3379 215 27 7 13:25

edit 2011-10-21:
after 3 years...

  • still valid that people should use chats
  • differences between de.WV + en.WV (more open)