School talk:Medicine

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[edit] Behavioral Medicine & Psychiatry

The first two years of medical school usually contain a basic health psychology (or behavioral medicine) course that addresses how behavior and health are connected and a survey course of clinical psychiatry. These are not listed except as "psychiatry" toward the end of the clinical part of the curriculm. That may be fine; it just differs from the way most curricula are arrayed. --Charlescengel 00:50, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Medicine w/o Nursing?

Interesting that Nursing does not appear anywhere within School of Medicine. Especially considering "treatment" is a main component of any medical schooling. FYI - while the percentages vary throughout the world, nurses treat between 10 and 100 times as many people as do physicians. I realize that this is a user developed and supported site and therefore I should be and am willing to contribute time and information but wondered if anyone else thinks that the exclusion of nursing is somewhat ignorant at best and elitest at worst. And NO, I am not a nurse nor in the nursing profession. Wkm4wikiversity 22:06, 3 January 2007 (UTC)wkm4wikiversity 03 Jan 2007Wkm4wikiversity 22:06, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

You still misunderstand the nature of a Wiki resource. There will be pages, schools, universities, coffee klatches, or whatever dedicated to nursing as soon as some interested participants show up and create them. 68.238.135.182 00:18, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Generally, medicine is the field related to the "practice of medicine," which is the job of a physician. For nursing, there are schools dedicated to nursing called such-and-such "School of Nursing." If you go to a hospital and ask for anyone in "medical," you will almost asuredly be dirrected to a physician. Similarly, if you ask for someone in "nursing," you will be dirrected to a nurse. They are completely different professions, but share the common goal of treating illness. I see where the question lies, but ask any nurse or physician and they will explain it similarly as I have. I began my career as a nurse and am now in the process of obtaining my M.D., so I know both sides of the story. Hope this clears things up. For those interested in nursing, there would be (or there should be) a Wikiversity "School of Nursing." --Wikisystole 22:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
At the same time, there's nothing preventing interested users from putting Nursing content here in Medicine. The Jade Knight 10:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Nothing at all, but it might be better placed in the School of Nursing. Donek (talk) - Go raibh mile maith agaibh 11:18, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Idea

Hi,

I wanted to ask your opinion on this idea for School:Medicine. Would it be wise, in your opinion, to start with a section on Clinical Cases? It could be a place for people to test their knowledge and go looking for answers, e.g. on Wikipedia. Of course, it would be nicer to have more interactive features, like the ones you get when taking interactive courses for CME credit, but I'm not a programmer.

--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 01:58, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cell differentiation picture

Cell differentiation.gif

The factual accuracy of the Image:Cell differentiation.gif on the School:Medicine page is disputed. This is a request to whoever added it to this page to remove it or upload the corrected version. (See the description at the original site here)Bduttabaruah 16:12, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Organization

I understand this is likely an initial framework for organization, but I find myself wanting initially to edit the divisions. For example - Internal medicine and Family Medicine are together in a single category, but this does not include pediatrics. Perhaps once there is more added material then we can shuffle this a bit to fit the volume of data available. Williamwells 06:12, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I think 'clinical Neurosciences' category should be abolished. instead there should be a 'division of mental Health' with subcategory of psychology and psychiatry. It may be more relevant to put neurology under 'general and internal medicine' and neurosurgery under 'surgery and anesthesiology'. --Riad 18:17, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I drafted the organisation, but now think it's rubbish: we shouldn't try to put specialities together to much: pediatrics, psychiatry, psychology, neurosurgery etc. should all have their own division, as far as I'm concerned.--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 20:09, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Steven, I agree to dividing as much as possible, and having as many "headers" as possible. There is no problem, as most links will be shared among headers, and you will get a better compartmentation. HolyZarkon 23:08, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Medicine Icon

Currently the icon for the medicine section is an animation of a human brain. I think this is a very poor choice. For one, it should not be animated. The rest of the icons are not animated, and the icon should be at least somewhat similar to the other icons, and should also lend itself more to being printed. Plus the animation is very choppy (perhaps just my computer) and is not aesthetically pleasing. Secondly, it a picture of a brain, and a brain is already being used in the icon for psychology (which makes sense). Medice is a hugely broad field, I'm sure there are many many more approprate icons that could be found. For example, perhaps an x-ray of a human skeleton. [for clarity, the icon I am reffering to is found on http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Browse. I cross posted this comment on that page's discussion page.]

142.68.160.138 20:43, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] medical "school"

I strongly question a medical "school" without practical application, I am a medical student and I think this site could be a nice source of free information for medical students, but I disagree with the term "school" since some guys might think that by reading articles from this site that they are able to go ahead and prescribe medicines to people ! which I think is a crime. 84.36.3.52 23:46, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps a disclaimer should be put at the top explaining this is not a holiday inn and therefore after reading here no one should committ crimes by using the information gained on other people.

A Wikiversity school is a content development project. The Wikiversity School of Medicine is a collaborative effort to plan, organize and develop learning resources related to medicine. --JWSchmidt 00:33, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, someone who prescribes controlled substances based solely on information learned through the Wiki project would most certainly be violating state and federal law in the USA (as you probably know as a fellow med student). I agree that for the layperson, there should be some sort of disclaimer due to the sensitive nature of this particular topic, particularly the handling and prescribing of controlled substances. The same would apply to the Pharmacy Wiki as well. --Wikisystole 22:41, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Biochemistry?

It seems the Topic:Biochemistry wiki indicates the School to link into there, but it isn't in the front page. Anyone? HolyZarkon 23:05, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I added a link to Topic:Biochemistry from the School:Medicine#Basic sciences section. What could be done is create a template for the "basic sciences" departments and then use that template both at School:Medicine#Basic sciences and at Topic:Basic sciences. Alternatively, we could remove the list of basic sciences departments from the School:Medicine page and just leave the link to Topic:Basic sciences. --JWSchmidt 23:42, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

That's great as long as applied to non-basic, aka clinical sciences too. We are used to the basic/clinical dichotomy and the different treatment still bothers us. It is still possible to think that the entire "menu" of disciplines would move to a template or two (or three ...) to apparently little avail.

Ok, now that raises a question which is NOT too important but is still related to how links are made. Biochemistry for med has a given focus; biochemistry as biochemistry by itself (as in biochemical engineering, for instance) has another one. It is unclear to me if this biochem is the medical version (hence no photosynthesis and no particularities from animals other than human, for instance) or the generic, engineering version, in which case pathological situations have little interest; or still, if we're going to have it all in one place, which is a third and also valid option, and I'm supposing this last one. It is not unusual for departments to carry different courses in their domain. HolyZarkon 19:29, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Good points. I suggest that Topic:Biochemistry be used as THE content development and planning page for all biochemistry content. We need to get clever about how to name learning resources for biochemistry according to the intended audience. We can use descriptive page names such as Biochemistry (medical) or Biochemistry (biochem majors), etc. or First year medical school biochemistry, etc. --JWSchmidt 00:28, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Perfect, agree, and I think I got it: So, in Topic:Biochemistry making links to subtopics like Medical Biochemistry, Medical Veterinary Biochemistry, etc. I must tell you I haven't the foggiest idea of what a major is; I can tell what 1st year medical biochem is and what 2nd year medical biochem is (around here, that is). The structure of resources in the biochem talk page now would be just a little beyond first year. Second year would be a connection to some particular aspects of physiology, physiopathology and pharmacology under the biochemical viewpoint.
BTW, thanks for the vitalism topic. Quite a great discussion, as it connects to so many things.

[edit] Ethics, History and Statistics

In my POV I think that the three subjects Medical and Experimental Ethics, History of Medicine and Statistics [for Medicine] are missing in the Basics. HolyZarkon 19:36, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion

(copied from Wikiversity:Learning goals)

I would like a wikimedical school,for med students, that would give you access to medical textbooks such as gray's anatomy, practice tests,etc. And also stuff you need to know to practice medicine, like the fact that the body's four fluids are : blood, pleghm, bile and water. The five Fs of someone at risk for gallbladder disease are Fat, Female, Fortyish, Fertile, Flatulent. Things like that.-anonymous May 15, 2007

I have a suggestion. How about incorporating material to provide a solid foundation for premed or earlier students-to sort of give the doctors of the future (well the ones who look at wikiversity anyways!) a little boost? Just material to introduce them to some basic concepts and ideas, as well as specific information that they'll need to know shortly. Or is this just a dumb idea? What do you think? Thornow 04:01, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

It is a good idea. I wonder if it could be integrated with learning resources related to medicine that would be useful to an even wider audience? --JWSchmidt 04:15, 17 May 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Pre-Medicine?

Another perhaps weird idea. It was hinted at in another suggestion, but I would like to have a field/department/degree of Pre-Medical Studies. A friend and myself are willing to fill out the entire curriculum if we have a place to put what we know. We are studying Pre-Medicine currently and would like a place to post what we know, not only as reference for others, but it provides us a very good method to study (by teaching others). I do not know if this should be a degree or a department, considering that I want to enlist knowledge from many spectrums (physics, biology, chemistry, to name a few) just like a premed student would be required to know. Any ideas on how to do this? Thanks! Schulb72 12:28, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I will be happy to help. I suggest starting a page called something like Topic:Premedical Studies. On that page you could list all of the subjects that should be available for premedical students and provide links to relevant pages such as Topic:Cell Biology. Content development projects such as Topic:Cell Biology and Topic:Organic chemistry could then work towards developing learning resources that are useful to premed students. All of the pages with learning resources suited to premeds will need to be in a category such as Category:Premedicine. --JWSchmidt 14:08, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree, and there is now a pre-med section if I am not mistaken. I finished my pre-med several years ago and I will be happy to help fill up the topics like Orgo, Biochem, general Bio, Inorganic, etc. --Wikisystole 22:46, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] November 2007 suggestion

I have seen a lot of good suggestions on this page and I am not sure if they were carried out or not but I really don't like the current format of the page, its departments and its overall organisation. I feel that a wiki"versity" website should be aimed at giving university-level education to anyone that wishes to receive it. Therefore, it should cater primarily, but not exclusively to medical students and the advancement of their learning. In essence, It should provide knowledge of medical topics that will enable medical students to enhance their skills. After all, this is not supposed to be an encyclopedia, more a university.

I suggest a complete revamp of the opening page in the school of medicine and I have created a temporary school of medicine webpage that allows people to view and comment on the suggested new page. The real inspiration for this was seeing neurology split into many different topics. Also, cardiology was split into medical and surgical. At the end of the day, cardiology is cardiology and the medical and surgical sides should remain in the same department

I see that noone has suggested anything in a few months but I hope I get some feedback on my suggestion, no matter what it is. DónalMcK 12.32PM (GMT)

I think you're thinking along the right track, Dónal (in terms of providing practical guidance for students of medicine). I'm also unsure of how we're breaking subjects into disciplines, and of what implications that has for providing for learning experiences. In many ways, I think interdisciplinary approaches might work best - and particularly in certain fields, of which medicine is one. (However, this is not to say that we don't also need specialised areas - medicine is probably the most specialised subject there is!) So, I'm all in favour of discussion about how to structure content and activity better - and I'm looking forward to seeing your efforts. One final caveat however - I don't think we need to fall into the trap of providing one route through a subject, but rather multiple paths that learners can explore as much or as little as they like - that way we don't need to worry about the superstructure of a page like this, but instead provide links to different kinds of learning materials and activities through things like portals. Cormaggio talk 12:56, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I completely agree with that. For example: in the department of Obs and gynae there will be page(s) dedicated to reproductive anatomy and this page should have links to the schools of medicine, nursing, midwifery, anatomy etc. However, anatomy and physiology links for example should be the responsibility of people involved in those schools despite the fact that the different schools will be involved in the writing of pages that straddle different disciplines. The page is ready if you want to have a look and let me know. I have prob left some things out but there may be suggestions you make that I think should be contained within a department. For example, in the original page there is a department dedicated to pain medicine, whereas i see that as a part of anaesthetics. You may also want to see urology and gastroenterology combined into generl surgery. If we keep this discussion going and more people join in, we will have a pretty decent school up and running pretty shortly. Please look at my pages entitled Topic:Obstetrics & Gynecology and Gynecological history taking as I am new to this and qould appreciate feedback :) (The preceding unsigned comment was added by DónalMcK (talk • contribs) .)
Yes, I agree with that view. As far as the formal structure of this school is confirmed, I think it's best to group things together like cardiology and vascular medicine, etc. It's not really that important so likely any suggestions would be better than the current scheme. I've made some copy-edits but I think the suggestion is fine, we can wait for a few days and then just change the page. I think some topics like the case studies can be organised both per discipline and as a learning pathway per se. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 13:21, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I like your thinking, if i have it right? The cardiology cases can be accessed both from the department's main page and from the academic department which will list all cases. This academic section I also envisaged as having all anatomy and physiology pages as well as the pages of other disciplines related to medicine. This will, I hope give the school a systemic approach as well as an approach from a disciplinary stand-point
I was also thinking about keeping the structure of each department as similar to the next as humanly possible. The motive for that is that, for medical students really, they rotate around specialties and if they have found the school helpful for one they will keep coming back if the structure is the same. What you guys think?
DónalMcK 13.34 20/10/07
I'm in no way qualified to comment on the actual structuring of medicine-related pages, so I'll leave it to you guys and others to discuss. :-) However, I do think the idea of breaking up the subject into knowledge and skills could be useful. Cormaggio talk 13:42, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Well in that case i might just run with this until someone tells me to stop lol :)

DónalMcK 20/10/07 1400


[edit] Hide/reveal function

Can anyone explain to me how to write a code for hiding and revealing information on a wiki page. I have seen examples of quizes before but i am looking for something a little different. I want to ask questions but, instead of asking the reader to insert answers, i just want them to click a reveal button that will reveal the answer, hopefully in a different color or font. I then want them to be able to hide it again if they so wish. Can anyone help? (The preceding unsigned comment was added by DónalMcK (talk • contribs) 18:38, 22 November 2007.)

Another thing besides the quizes is such a expand/collapse box (example here). There you can make normal wiki text (also in color). Would this be helpful ? ----Erkan Yilmaz (Wikiversity:Chat, wiki blog) 19:03, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Erkan, that works really well. I have implemented it in my writing of Gynecology Case 1. I need one more piece of information to help me complete the case. I want to align the answers to a case history on the right hand side of the expand box. I assume that I need the tab function for that? Can you, or anyone else, help me? DónalMcK 08:42, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure, if I understood this, but did you want something like this ? Aligning could also be done with a html table (see e.g. Tables in HTML). ----Erkan Yilmaz (Wikiversity:Chat, wiki blog) 09:49, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Not really, but it will work fine, thanks. DónalMcK 09:54, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I see. How about giving it a try to explain it, so I can understand it ? I mean isn't this a similar scenario, when a patient comes to a doctor and there the doctor asks questions to identify the problems of the patient, if something is still unclear. Because miscommunication can happen in many forms.
And since you asked a request I would feel uncomfortable that you did not have a satisfying answer. I will also ask others to see, if they can help in this case. What do you say ? ----Erkan Yilmaz (Wikiversity:Chat, wiki blog) 10:00, 24 November 2007 (UTC)


Sounds great. The idea I was looking for is contained in the third box in the case. When a doctor needs to find out more information about a patient he asks specific and structured questions. Each structure differs depending on the initial complant. The third box gives an example of this structure for this particular presenting complaint. The doctor first asks "onset". I want this to appear on the left. Patient says it started "4 months ago". I want this to appear on the right. You showed me how to do that. I think it is good enough. I would be perfectly satisfied if it can appear somewhere on the right with the first letter of each word forming a perfect vertical line down the box, much in the same way the tab function appears in a word document for example. But, as I have said, if it is too difficult, the previous solution will work fine. DónalMcK 13:11, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No reply :(

I see that there have been no replies to my proposed medical curriculum. I want people to get involved in adding content to this project and I want to get stuck in right away myself but I would prefer to have a couple of people to join me on agreeing certain issues. This the plan for the development of the school as I see it:

  1. Agree an overall curriculum Vista-clean.png Done
  2. Decide on how many levels and modules and which departments will be responsibleVista-clean.png Done
  3. Design front page for the school Vista-clean.png Done
  4. Contact other schools regarding the design of departments that come under the umbrella of both schools Vista-clean.png Done
  5. Design pages for the solely medical departments Vista-clean.png Done
  6. Agree a curriculum for each module in turn Gnome-devel.svg Working on it!
  7. Decide on the lessons and write lesson plans Crystal Clear app ktip.png Ideas welcome!
  8. Edit/Add Content according to the lesson plans Crystal Clear app ktip.png Ideas welcome!
  9. Review!! Crystal Clear app ktip.png Ideas welcome!

If people wish to join the discussion please feel free. Go raibh mile maith agaibh 15:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello Donek, if the reaction on your posts is not fast enough from your point of view (most of the times "we" expect/assume something and therefore we get disappointed, but if you change this expectation/assumptions things may look quite the other way) or there is no reaction, just start editing: be bold. Later on people will join. You just have to motivate them with good learning resources.
If you want you can also have a look at what the other Wikiversities have done so far:
Look at the version history of the pages and you will see active contributors whom you can ask to start a project alltogether. You could also look at Wikipedia's w:Portal:Medicine.
About point1: nothing is permanent - actually we are a wiki - and even in a few months you may say yourself that what you agree today on is not ok. So just start with a version1 and flow with the wiki towards the learning experience. ----Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 19:15, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I will. I intend in the next couple of hours to create a design for this school based on the structures proposed at various community discussions. Then the school can be developed according to my proposed format of co-operation above. I will go it alone and hopefully people can join me. Go raibh mile maith agaibh 16:44, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Can you add the Department of Military Medicine (http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Topic:Military_medicine) to the level 5 list? I use it quite a bit (albeit a little sparse) and I know others I work with use it also. Thanks..
I certainly will and thanks for notifying me. Although, I hope to create a special study area on the main page of the school underneath where the levels are posted. I hope I can post the military medicine department in this section, but it seems to be the only special study area at the moment so it would be silly to do so now. I will place the military department under level 5 for now, but I would like to know if you would agree with me that military medicine is not a mainstream field, although an important one, and should eventually be classified as a special area of interest? Go raibh mile maith agaibh 18:10, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Special area of medical interest --> yes agreed. Mainstream --> not so much. Thanks for putting it back on the list.

[edit] MedRevise

I am not mentioning this site to be an advert, merely a question. I am an admin at a medical revision site called MedRevise. Our aim is to provide a interactive medical revision wiki, in effect. In what ways could we affiliate, or pool with this project? We use Mediawiki, so are very compatible.MedRevise 00:05, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikiversity. I suggest that you create a page here at Wikiversity about MedRevise, on a page such as MedRevise. Provide a factual account of the website and its educational value. Wikiversity content is licensed under the GFDL and so it is available for re-use for commercial purposes. It looks like MedRevise specifies non-commercial. That means that you can copy material from here to there but we cannot copy material from there to here. Feel free to make reasonable links from Wikiversity to educational content on the MedRevise website. As time goes on, there seems to be more and more wikis concerned with medical topics, it is important that they cooperate and not spread the efforts of contributors too thin. --JWSchmidt 00:39, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiproject medicine on en.wiki

Hi, I suggest we invite members of Wikiproject medicine on en.wiki to participate in this project, this will give the project a big push, since many of those members are hard workers :-), I ll desgin a template and send invitations, what do you think?? Madhero88 14:12, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I think it is a good idea to encourage Wikipedians to edit here, but be careful with "desgin a template". Most Wikipedians do not like to be spammed, even if it is spam for a sister project. Rather than go to individual user talk pages with a template, I would suggest a simple talk page message at the Wikiproject. --JWSchmidt 16:36, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Hello. I'm one of the active members of WikiProject Medicine over at wp-en, and I would like to say that personally, I will be more than happy to added to the School of Medicine. I'll be contacting my peers as soon as possible for them to get to the matter, and hopefully we can get this project tip-top shape as soon as possible. As for now, I would conclude you with a very passionate yes from WPMED! Best of luck. Renaissancee 03:37, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
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